Mostly we just deal with the divergence Koji added for English. Like the entire personality of the character in my signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSuperior
Oh, and the pain that is Ye Olde Urianger, ugh.
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09-11-2022, 01:25 PMShibi
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09-11-2022, 01:37 PMMidareyukkiI've already explained it in these forums before, but it's a bit more than just a lack of 1:1 translation. There are creative liberties that no good translation team would take without explicit consent from the editor or the author.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSuperior
However, the leader of the English localization is Koji Fox, who is not only directly involved in the creative process, he's in charge of making the game's lore.
Thus, and this is from a professional standpoint because software localization is my professional field, this a very weird translation. I personally would not say it is translation at all. It's a form of localization to a level that usually, under any other circumstance, would not be acceptable. For all intents and purposes, their re-writing, additions and changes in nuance are too extreme for me to consider it as such. There IS translation and localization involved, but the outcome goes just one step further.
There are some blog posts by the localization team about having to rewrite stuff due to earlier "gaffes", such as Eula van Darnus suddenly being Nael's sister due to the Japanese language omitting someone's gender. Or the change to enemy names in the Crystal Tower raid series because of Japanese phonetics being different, but the translation into English being the same (the Primal Titan is "Tie-tan" while the boss Acheron was called "Tee-tan". Both are Titan, though). Stuff like this is normal, provided justification is given to the editor or publisher. Sometimes we don't do that, fans question it and we go on social media to explain :p a phenomenon that's been happening a lot on twitter.
But this really is something else. There are changes too notorious and drastic to the tone, message and manner of speech that shift perceptions and lore entirely. What we're getting is essentially a new script, very similar to the original Japanese, but with an added layer of nuance. -
09-11-2022, 03:41 PMJojoya
Translation - the process of translating words or text from one language into another.
Interpretation - the action of explaining the meaning of something.
Localization - the process of making something local in character or restricting it to a particular place.
Doing a strict translation from Japanese may not yield a story that would resonate with (or make sense to) Western players so it gets localized instead. Look at what you get out of Google Transale sometimes - it's an accurate translation but it seems like gibberish because it's been neither interpreted or localized.
If you want the original, use the original language.
When did Banri Oda step down and Koji take over for lore, especially since Koji is now committed entirely to the FFXVI project and has been for several months?Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
Koji worked closely with Oda-san on lore - he was not in charge of it. He had been the lead of English localization then was promoted to Translation Director before being moved to work on FFXVI. Kathryn (Kate) Cwynar (who co-wrote the Flow lyrics with Ishikawa) now oversees English localization. -
09-11-2022, 04:25 PMTheSuperiorSorry friend I have signatures disabled and all the better overall. And I love how Urianger speaks. As someone who grew up reading books way above my age range, I can relate and I love how they've come up with ways for him to use 100 words to say something that can be said in 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
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09-11-2022, 06:45 PMLustreIf that the case, then why are the European languages mostly the same as each other and English is the outlier with loads of instances of contexts changing? When those "liberties" mean that the audience comes away with a completely different perception of a situation, I'd say that's an issue. EN localisers are more interested in scoring points on Twitter than giving us an accurate idea of things lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by TheSuperior
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09-11-2022, 08:32 PMSerilda
I dislike the liberties taken with localization too. Having played FFXI (which also had a creative localization at times) on the Japanese client for years by choice, dealing with the arbitrary differences between the story and characterization in my version of the game and that of my friends was a constant headache; it even affected gameplay because figuring out which drops we each wanted in group/alliance events was needlessly confusing. Urianger's speech isn't clever or creative, it's full of repetitive, labored attempts to obfuscate the simplest of concepts by shoehorning faux-intellectual nonsense into simple sentences. Wading through the added fluff completely neuters any emotional impact of his lines. And a lot of the characterization suffers from rewriting too. When I play the MSQ alongside my friends we often come away with completely contrasting opinions of characters based on their lines in the same scenes. Not because they're written ambiguously, but because the localized versions say things with completely different nuance to the Japanese script.
And again, it's not just the story. If it was just that I'd switch to the Japanese client again and be perfectly happy, but I deliberately matched my language to my FC buddies this time around and it still makes communicating with other players in the game needlessly confusing. Why are spells renamed in stupid ways (Holy/Holyga becoming Holy/Holy3 instead of Holy/Holy2) in the name of 'consistency' which doesn't exist? Other localized FF games have used the non-numbered naming scheme just fine. Why are player titles arbitrarily changed so that wearing a title you think comes across one way might mean something different to people using FR/DE/JP clients? That's downright bizarre, especially because the titles which were changed in English often make less sense to English native speakers (the Green Eyes title being an example which had its original FF reference torn out in the name of localization - and it's not even a very good title; Dark Knight is a great title, whereas I'd never want to use the gibberish Dark Driver; using Slaughterhouse makes you The Dominator which has a completely different feel for something you're showing to every single person you meet). I understand that Japanese and English are different and that some sacrifices are necessary when a word/phrase has unintended connotations but the JP team still want to use it, but the localization team need to calm down and stop assuming that everyone playing stays in the same monolingual bubble as their friends. Some of us talk to other people using the other clients, as per the game's design, and the localization inaccuracies - because that's what they are - impact upon basic communication. -
09-11-2022, 08:43 PMShibiNo problems. It reads "やはり、お前は……笑顔が……イイ" (Localised to: 'a smile better suits a hero' or something like that).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSuperior
English is normally the odd one out, but in this case, it's far-and-away divergent from the other languages.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSuperior
How he speaks isn't a localisation into all non-JP languages, English only. The other languages don't do it. -
09-11-2022, 10:12 PMSannaRThat's because the other two localization teams felt using the more 1:1 was more suitable for their target audiences. Meanwhile the English team chose a style that made the localization be aimed at North America. It's not like the JP team doesn't also do this. Look at the Namazu, they used a different dialect than what they use for the majority of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
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09-11-2022, 11:28 PMKazharOr that the fact that they always ignore that the French and German in this game does it. Somehow, EN translation need to "adapted to western values" but not the other two. I've never seen any of the french players I know complain that the values felt dissonant with theirs or some nonsense like that. (and we complain about everything)Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoabolic
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09-11-2022, 11:34 PMShibiGiven averages in scholastic achievement across all English Speakers, I still believe it's a pain they chose EME (Early Modern English) as the dialect for the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
I'll warrant that it's done purely for flavour, not because this archaic form is more suitable to English Speakers - fluent or native - let alone those with lesser ESL skills.
Whilst I have little issue reading EME, time and time again the complaints on these fora, and in other places, show a significant number of native speakers do have issues with EME.
Taking this idea further, head off into the Localization (sic) forum and look at some of the common complaints about things like "corse" being a mistake. That single word, and how much confusion it causes, is enough to prove these choices were not made with 'more suitability for the target audience' as a reason.
I don't have an isssssue with the beast-tribe-ones having unusal speech mannerisms. yes, yes. They are an adjunct to the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR