Samurai is dead to me, thanks square (Kaiten 6.2)

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

It was surely part of the issue, but I sincerly doubt the recent changes will make up for the loss anyway. We have a wet noodle instead of a sharp Katana now and a brain dead job.

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We'll see. Can't say if I agree with Brain dead since picking SAM rather recently i still find myself rather busy with remembering positionals while picking right spot to be in order to not die ehen executing Iaijutsu. I can't say I had the chance to experience Kaiten but it feels a lot like Lance Charge from Dragoon. Not exactly an ability you use to express your skill since it has a very strict and firm spot in your rotation. You use Midare/Tsubame - you use Kaiten beforehand. I sort of understand the "keep the 10 kenki for Kaiten" but again it feels like less of a skill expression and more like memorizing your button sequences. So from my perspective not much has changed in the depth department. But I may be wrong and what for me seems like fake complexity and strict rotation really was an expression of skill. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

We'll see. Can't say if I agree with Brain dead since picking SAM rather recently i still find myself rather busy with remembering positionals while picking right spot to be in order to not die ehen executing Iaijutsu. I can't say I had the chance to experience Kaiten but it feels a lot like Lance Charge from Dragoon. Not exactly an ability you use to express your skill since it has a very strict and firm spot in your rotation. You use Midare/Tsubame - you use Kaiten beforehand. I sort of understand the "keep the 10 kenki for Kaiten" but again it feels like less of a skill expression and more like memorizing your button sequences. So from my perspective not much has changed in the depth department. But I may be wrong and what for me seems like fake complexity and strict rotation really was an expression of skill. Time will tell.

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It was 20 Kenki and forced you to not spend it all on Shintens which are 25 kenkis. So it gave some form of Kenki management. Additionally, Iaijutsus are not GCDs they are casts. Hence the need to press something before doing it, otherwise you have GCD cooldopwn + cast time which is a lot of nothing in between.
Using it well was rewarding and it is how Samurai was designed in 4.0. It was a core gameplay mechanic of samurai.
In this alone, it's is very different from life surge in terms of execution and feeling.

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

It was 20 Kenki and forced you to not spend it all on Shintens which are 25 kenkis. So it gave some form of Kenki management. Additionally, Iaijutsus are not GCDs they are casts. Hence the need to press something before doing it, otherwise you have GCD cooldopwn + cast time which is a lot of nothing in between.
Using it well was rewarding and it is how Samurai was designed in 4.0. It was a core gameplay mechanic of samurai.
In this alone, it's is very different from life surge in terms of execution and feeling.

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Using it well? I don't see much options to use it poorly considering you can squeeze it before any Midare since the base combo results in 30 kenki (when sped up with Meikyo which became standard in opener since 6.0 gave it ability to apply buffs from regular chain) totaling at 80 thanks to your battery and that's before your first Midare.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Using it well? I don't see much options to use it poorly considering you can squeeze it before any Midare since the base combo results in 30 kenki (when sped up with Meikyo which became standard in opener since 6.0 gave it ability to apply buffs from regular chain) totaling at 80 thanks to your battery and that's before your first Midare.

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During burst window you can run short of kenki for it if you are not careful and spam shinten mindlessly, which is effectively what the job is now: mindless. The kenki gauge is simply a shinten dispenser.
Also you are wrong, the base combo gives 20.

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

During burst window you can run short of kenki for it if you are not careful and spam shinten mindlessly, which is effectively what the job is now: mindless. The kenki gauge is simply a shinten dispenser.
Also you are wrong, the base combo gives 20.

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You sure? Oh wait you mean per Sen Combo? Then I agree. What I meant was the standard level 90 opener under Meikyo which Gives you 35 from final steps (Gekko, Kasha, Yukikaze) and extra 50 from OGCD all before you get to the first Midare.

As for the first part... Wow. You really put basic comprehension as some rewarding and hard to understand play. And hell if what I read from Balance guides is correct then you're still not going to brainlessly oress shinten in any reasonably optimal opener nor rotation.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

You sure? Oh wait you mean per Sen Combo? Then I agree. What I meant was the standard level 90 opener under Meikyo which Gives you 35 from final steps (Gekko, Kasha, Yukikaze) and extra 50 from OGCD all before you get to the first Midare.

As for the first part... Wow. You really put basic comprehension as some rewarding and hard to understand play. And hell if what I read from Balance guides is correct then you're still not going to brainlessly oress shinten in any reasonably optimal opener nor rotation.

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That's not what you meant, you said the base combo, not the opener. You have 3 variants of it and each give 20 Kenki.
Still in the opener, if you over use your kenki spenders, you end up short with Kenki for Kaiten which is needed 3 times.

And for the rest of your comment, they indeed removed something you deem "that basic" and yet you find it good. That shows how little you value any tiny bit of gameplay. On top of it, it's quite interesting how you cherry pick what you want to discuss, and even when called out on your complete misunderstanding of the job, continue to argue.


If you want to actually be smart, look at the hundreds of posts previously made and get a proper understanding of things. Some good souls even made recaps. But we both know this is not what you are after.
I think you're getting close to the troll category.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

How many "I'm disappointed and Square Enix needs to fire their entire staff because Kaiten didn't come back" threads do we need?

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As many as are required to not be ignored for four more months or even years.

Reminder that they:

• Asked for feedback.
• Said they would explain changes.
• Ignored it and maintained COMPLETE silence for an entire patch cycle.
• Did not explain changes.
• Skimmed right over job changes in patch note reading.

Clearly hundreds of threads in the SAM forum and thousands of post were not enough, so we're doing our due diligence. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Sure its an exaggeration, but fflogs does show that after 6.1 there was a sharp decline in sam players, especially in ultimate.

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How goes SAM retirement & BLM around?

-sips Ishgardian wine-

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

That's not what you meant, you said the base combo, not the opener. You have 3 variants of it and each give 20 Kenki.
Still in the opener, if you over use your kenki spenders, you end up short with Kenki for Kaiten which is needed 3 times.

And for the rest of your comment, they indeed removed something you deem "that basic" and yet you find it good. That shows how little you value any tiny bit of gameplay. On top of it, it's quite interesting how you cherry pick what you want to discuss, and even when called out on your complete misunderstanding of the job, continue to argue.


If you want to actually be smart, look at the hundreds of posts previously made and get a proper understanding of things. Some good souls even made recaps. But we both know this is not what you are after.
I think you're getting close to the troll category.

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Troll? That's a new one. Yes I called Kaiten "that basic" because the skill was basically no-brainer. Use it before the big shot since it's better than any other Kenki Spender when used right before Midare and Oni. Hardly a very skilled play you seem to claim it was unless you really get a thing for Shinten and you were dropping more than two during the opening (Opening generates 135 kenki in total leaving 75 after reserving Kaiten and 50 after using Senei). If you ask me throwing Kaiten as the reason why the job was so complex is doing SAM a disservice since you ignore all aspects that go into learning the fight and making the most out of Samurai entire toolkit so that you squeeze as much damage as you can. Concept that still applies to the class even if their kit is less diverse.

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

snip

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Read this part

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

We'll see. Can't say if I agree with Brain dead since picking SAM rather recently i still find myself rather busy with remembering positionals while picking right spot to be in order to not die ehen executing Iaijutsu. I can't say I had the chance to experience Kaiten but it feels a lot like Lance Charge from Dragoon.

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So as a new Samurai, telling us Samurai mains purely based on what's on paper, how apparently this version of Samurai i.e ShintenSpam is more skill-expressive, fun, enjoyable, nuanced then Kaiten? when you never used Kaiten to compare... next based off of your post history you gone tell me that manually memorizing crafter rotations is a burden to heavy so you complain about... crafter macro's... oy vey...

How we find these people? It's good entertainment value though I'll link to the post some friends and have a good laugh, but at the same time it's going to be met with just an excessive amount of facepalms XD