The Future of WHM

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Although the refresh rate of Lillies reduced down to 20s was nice, it feels like there is often a surplus even when people don't need healing. So perhaps something akin to SCH's Energy Drain that you can spend lillies on when when you don't need them otherwise. It could be a small damage spell but that's really the only thing that could be adjusted with WHM without getting too in-depth maybe?

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Then lilys go back to being a DPS loss to heal and the misery change to actually make WHM heal goes out the window

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Then lilys go back to being a DPS loss to heal and the misery change to actually make WHM heal goes out the window

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I'm not really bothered about a DPS loss or any parsing bs, it'd just be nice to have something to do with surplus lillies, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I'm not really bothered about a DPS loss or any parsing bs, it'd just be nice to have something to do with surplus lillies, that's all.

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I mean you aren’t concerned with it but that was literally the entire problem with lilys in ShB and pre 6.1 EW and energy drains current problem, if you give people a way to spend healing resources on damage they will do that as the expense of healing

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

If you want to nerf the healing potencies of both spells, that's fine. I encourage it. I've been wanting the healing potencies of all of WHM's spells toned down for a while now. They're too strong at the moment.

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They are the same potency as AST, heck AST's ST regen has a heal attached whereas WHM's doesn't. If you wanna reduce WHM's then we must reduce AST's too.

https://i.imgur.com/vzhjHfC.png

I do not agree that we should reduce WHM's GCD heals. they aren't too strong they are equal to AST. We just have 2 that are instant cast that are equal to the castable ones that give us a nuke that's equal to if we just glared instead.

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Originally Posted by JacobNewblood

They are the same potency as AST, heck AST's ST regen has a heal attached whereas WHM's doesn't. If you wanna reduce WHM's then we must reduce AST's too.

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Just a correct.
AST's Regen lasts 15s, not 18 so that upfront heal on AST is made up by WHM's regen getting 1 extra tic so they heal for the same overall total

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I may vehemently disagree with the great lobotomization of Shadowbringers, but this one point I will concede to the devs: the wonder twins were stifling the healer design space with their overpowered I-have-an-answer-to-every-single-situation kits, and SOMETHING there had to give.

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I only say this is because WHM has a lack of creativity left in it. Lily system was created as a fix for the original lily system. Misery is to fix an existing issue that WHMs were punished for even remotely trying to heal.

I want the best for WHM but pretending that it's in a good spot is foolish. There will always be more for WHM to grow. It has potential to be much more than it currently is. WHM finally feels functional, not evolving.

I disagree that SB AST had an answer for everything. What made AST strong in SB was their ability to have AoE balance and free regen healing along with Earthly Star. They lacked burst healing past Star.

I'd agree that SCH was borderline OP but that's only because they had an answer for everything.

The sad thing is that SB was the last time that I enjoyed AST and SCH. If doing what they did to them for the sake of putting them on WHM's level, then they have zero interest in properly investing actual healer balance. They straight up murder SCH and AST's kits because they were perceived as OP. Mind you that WHM was still very popular despite all the negative attention. AST and SCH lost more as they continue to ruin them.

So no the only healer that "won" is WHM because people still keep the popularity of the job alive while AST feels less and less like a fun healer with card buffs and more like a disjointed mess with pretty sfx to compensate.

My point is that WHM is the real reason why healer design has stagnated. Because the devs refuse to give healers more than the basic of healer kits because they can never truly have anything special long term without WHM being left behind. And instead of giving WHM some actual love and design it into a better design, they just leave it to be just that–the starter healer.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

I only say this is because WHM has a lack of creativity left in it. Lily system was created as a fix for the original lily system. Misery is to fix an existing issue that WHMs were punished for even remotely trying to heal.

I want the best for WHM but pretending that it's in a good spot is foolish. There will always be more for WHM to grow. It has potential to be much more than it currently is. WHM finally feels functional, not evolving.

I disagree that SB AST had an answer for everything. What made AST strong in SB was their ability to have AoE balance and free regen healing along with Earthly Star. They lacked burst healing past Star.

I'd agree that SCH was borderline OP but that's only because they had an answer for everything.

The sad thing is that SB was the last time that I enjoyed AST and SCH. If doing what they did to them for the sake of putting them on WHM's level, then they have zero interest in properly investing actual healer balance. They straight up murder SCH and AST's kits because they were perceived as OP. Mind you that WHM was still very popular despite all the negative attention. AST and SCH lost more as they continue to ruin them.

So no the only healer that "won" is WHM because people still keep the popularity of the job alive while AST feels less and less like a fun healer with card buffs and more like a disjointed mess with pretty sfx to compensate.

My point is that WHM is the real reason why healer design has stagnated. Because the devs refuse to give healers more than the basic of healer kits because they can never truly have anything special long term without WHM being left behind. And instead of giving WHM some actual love and design it into a better design, they just leave it to be just that–the starter healer.

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I love your last point here, the entire healer role is stagnating because WHM is too simple but they have to keep it competitive so they strip stuff out of the other healers to keep WHM viable

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean you aren’t concerned with it but that was literally the entire problem with lilys in ShB and pre 6.1 EW and energy drains current problem, if you give people a way to spend healing resources on damage they will do that as the expense of healing

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Is that really a problem at all when the healing kit is as bloated as it is and the worst consequence of healer miscalculating is usually just having to pay the DPS back with interest if you need to fall back on GCD heals?

Like yeah, in theory you might be able to do so some last second healing with lilies and aetherflow that you can't with GCDs when people are eating mechanics left and right. But with how the server ticks are and how hard the double-hit mechanics tend to punish, it's still basically a hail mary and people tend to die anyway unless you foresee a player's mistake well beforehand.

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Originally Posted by JacobNewblood

They are the same potency as AST, heck AST's ST regen has a heal attached whereas WHM's doesn't. If you wanna reduce WHM's then we must reduce AST's too.

https://i.imgur.com/vzhjHfC.png

I do not agree that we should reduce WHM's GCD heals. they aren't too strong they are equal to AST. We just have 2 that are instant cast that are equal to the castable ones that give us a nuke that's equal to if we just glared instead.

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Cure 3 missing in the gcd section

And synnestry on ogcd for ast