Can we just take a moment to talk about Black Mage?

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Agreed. I normally level all of a certain equipment type together, so BLM, SMN, and RDM I was leveling together and everytime I had to switch back to BLM I sighed and just bit the bullet. It's a really cool meta-game managing all of that stuff and it seems like people truly love it. Definitely not for me though, especially since SMN and RDM are so simple it was jarring changing to BLM. No need to change it though, there are plenty of other jobs.




Except it does. BLM is the last DPS with cast time left and the idea is to bring that closer to the other casters. The entire gameplay surrounding BLM is about positioning and timing. Making sure you're in the "right spot" so you don't need to move, making sure you drop your ley lines at the right time, taking advantage of Triple Cast and Swift cast when you do need to move. The efficiency is all about knowing when to use all of those abilities. You are asking for a casting buff to make all of that stuff matter less and...for what?

There already exists casters that "cast" quickly if that's what they're looking for. Don't make BLM like jobs that already exist, that's just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as your extreme example.

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Right and I understand that fact. But the fights in the vast majority of the game use mechanics that are based on the position of other players and in random group environments there isn't as much coordination as in something like a savage run, so this puts the job in an uncomfortable place. It also makes the job very unfavorable during the learning stages since unlike just about any other job in the game, they can lose a significant amount of their combat effectiveness from having to move, to the point that sometimes people feel pressured to stay in the leylines and get hit since if they survive the hit, they get the cast off. This is present in all casters, but BLM it is very pronounced.

They still aren't doing as badly as machinist.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Right and I understand that fact. But the fights in the vast majority of the game use mechanics that are based on the position of other players and in random group environments there isn't as much coordination as in something like a savage run, so this puts the job in an uncomfortable place. It also makes the job very unfavorable during the learning stages since unlike just about any other job in the game, they can lose a significant amount of their combat effectiveness from having to move, to the point that sometimes people feel pressured to stay in the leylines and get hit since if they survive the hit, they get the cast off. This is present in all casters, but BLM it is very pronounced.

They still aren't doing as badly as machinist.

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What content are you talking about that has mechanics that are based on the position of other players that isn't savage (which people discuss positions before the fight) that this would be a problem with? Certainly isn't a "vast majority" of the game.

Overall the things you're "complaining" about are the features of the job. Some jobs are allowed to be more difficult. I realize it seems like an anathema given SE's current design philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

It doesn't kill job depth if they gave it a haste buff. BLM is about having big powerful key spells that take a long time to cast, but it makes no sense that they'd rapid fire off said big spells constantly in a rotation. You would expect the long spells to be at the end of the rotation, similar to how communio works with reaper, albeit reaper has theirs as a fast cast since they are a melee job.

Resisting change is one thing but getting lost in the whole idea that slow and clunky is a mechanical identity in a game that isn't built for it is a self defeating in an argument. So lets just push their "identity" even further and increase their cast times to 6 seconds on their fire spells and see how that works out for you blackmage lovers. I'm betting it would completely cripple and render the job unplayable because suddenly you'd have to always use every single quick cast move, and then you'd just counter argue that they could just buff the attack damage and somehow the whole thing works.

What causes all the frustration with them is the leyline skill and the time limit someone has to complete a combo thanks to ecolochian, which is to say the two core mechanics that make the job what it is right now. At the very least they should make it so that someone doesn't drop casting despair / flare if the timing is off since that's probably the biggest pain point.

Maybe making leylines something that isn't a zoned buff would fix the problem since they already got so much stacked against them with the longer cast times that they don't really need to have to deal with a position locked haste buff.

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Sounds like a skill issue rather than a design issue. ie. A player problem, than a job problem. The simple answer is play a different job if you dislike one. Not all jobs are meant to appeal to everyone, even if a good majority of players level everything to cap for the sake of completion.

There are 19 jobs to do battle with in this game. If 1 doesn't suit your tastes try another.

The only fix Ley Lines needs is making it a 90 second CD again.

OP would have hated ARR BLM.

Anyway, BLM is all about forethought and encounter knowledge. The first few times doing something you're DPS is likely going to suffer but the more you get used to the fight then your damage will go up. That's true of all jobs, true, but it's extremely apparent with BLM

I am sure BLM players would be just as salty about changes of that nature as I am about Kaiten being removed and SAM's damage spikes getting flattened into tedium.

The only changes I feel confident in advocating for in other jobs that I don't main is just changing which abilities are given when. SAM has a complete kit at 50, many other jobs do not. It's bad enough that every job is miserable to play at low levels because of a lack of buttons in general, but when I try leveling other jobs like DRG, I'm struck by how ridiculous it is that I do not have an AoE rotation at 50. I don't think BLM has these sorts of issues.

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

OP would have hated ARR BLM.

Anyway, BLM is all about forethought and encounter knowledge. The first few times doing something you're DPS is likely going to suffer but the more you get used to the fight then your damage will go up. That's true of all jobs, true, but it's extremely apparent with BLM

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I miss ARR BLM. Infinite flare spam trick FTW.

If you're unwilling or incapable of utilizing BLM's kit perhaps SMN is more up your speed? Try that instead of advocating for changes that completely butcher the job identity and feel for most of its current playerbase

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

OP would have hated ARR BLM.

Anyway, BLM is all about forethought and encounter knowledge. The first few times doing something you're DPS is likely going to suffer but the more you get used to the fight then your damage will go up. That's true of all jobs, true, but it's extremely apparent with BLM

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I actually DID hate ARR black mage. That was back in the day where you used ethers to triple cast Flare. :P

Just after all these years and seeing how this works right now, as well as participation in end game, this isn't so much as a problem of skill as much as the direction doesn't work. Slapping a bunch of instant cast skills to correct a bad design choice on long casts in a game where you have to dodge attacks, when other casters with shorter cast times or more opportunities to move can dance around unimpeded, is what makes the job feel clunky.

Ultimately the direction they are heading with all the jobs is that the role is the job, and the job is the paint for the role. All the tanks are the same, really. Same with the melee except for the jobs they haven't gotten to updating yet. Even warrior got their cone taken away for a circle aoe. People probably don't even remember Lethargy, Freeze, or Apocatastasis, but those were around when I first played the job.

Also not pointing this comment directly at you so much as just trying to deal with all the other comments people have made so far in protest of my opening statement. Like these haven't already been done before. People like digging a rut in the floor apparently and kind of pop their head out to protest the person mentioning they are in a ditch.

I'd rather they didn't change it, even though I'm not very good at it myself. It was my first class, the one I leveled first through Shadowbringers. (I switched to RDM, and am happy.) It's the one class I hold as 'some day, I'll be good enough to do this right.'

There's something about thunder I don't like, though - not that it's hard, but it doesn't quite feel right. But I wouldn't change the slow cast, the need to know a fight and position correctly. It's the epitome to me, and when I see someone doing it well, I'm impressed, more than any other class.

I wouldn't want to play it when I'm tired, but fortunately, we're not locked to one job like in other mmos. I DO like the Summoner for learning fights, for when I'm tired. That used to be MCH for me, but no more. Black Mage is for when I get a lot better than I am.