How do you feel about MP?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

DRK maybe, but PLD's MP is an illusion--the correct choice is to spend your whole bar during Requiescat, and therefore there is no choice.

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Indeed. Both are likewise just fancy indicators for charges shared across 3 skills. 3.33 charges for the one, 5 for the other. One should be used minimally outside of raidbuffs to avoid overcap. The other may as well not exist outside of the job's native buff (and its 3rd option is worthless even then).

I feel like you can remove MP, it mostly exists to prevent a lot of raise but Raise is a 8 second long cast, instant raise is a 60s cooldown.
So you already can't chain res.

MP also exists to prevent spamming big healing casts like Cure III, Medica but even if there wasn't MP, you would be a terrible healer if you did this.
So you already don't spam those healing spells.

As DPS, MP never comes into play except for BLM. Other than that, you spam Lucid Dreaming.
On the contrary, sometimes is simply prevents the job from attacking "too fast", honestly that just reminds me of HW PLD or HW MNK.

PLD? Make it a gauge already...
DRK? Also make it its own gauge.
SMN? MP never comes into play, Res is 8s long cast.
RDM? Put the res on 30s and voila.
BLM? Make it its own gauge, MPs are basically a BLM gauge.

Healer could see MPs infinite or removed, they wouldn't change the slightest in their gameplay.
KO already reduces the potency of healing, that's far enough punishment.

To me it feels like MP are there for the same reason we have branching combos for some jobs instead of the 1 button pvp combos: so you can still make mistakes. Like, I'm currently leveling SAM and GNB and because I'm not so used to them I sometimes forget where in the combo I am and have to check my hotbars. I even pressed the wrong button once or twice (or more... I'm clumsy and stupid). For healers MP are there so you don't forget to press Lucid Dreaming, use your stacks as SGE, and so on. If you forget to press them or just spam Cure III you run out of MP.

Other than that it's just there to punish the healer for the other party members' mistakes. Like if multiple players have to be raised you run out of MP and get yelled at because you can't do anything meaningful anymore. Or you just used your MP heals and someone drops their AoE on you, and you get raised with nothing. If it was my fault I'd gladly take it...

If MP are the way they are now they can just as well remove them completely and give the jobs that need them another job gauge that functions similarly.

For Raise it could just cost this gauge and/or have a longer CD with multiple charges. Expensive heals could cost gauge as well.

The other option would be a complete overhaul to MP management to make it meaningful again, but I'd rather have they make healers more engaging in a different way.

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Originally Posted by Limonia

To me it feels like MP are there for the same reason we have branching combos for some jobs instead of the 1 button pvp combos: so you can still make mistakes.

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Except, you'd be more than capable of enough mistakes even without them.

Spamming Medica II, for instance, is mistake enough in wasted time. Using the outright wrong combo for one's place in rotation or the given circumstance is already a costly mistake.

And yet we spend up to 7 buttons per job on what amounts to just fat-fingering traps or bloat like Lucid Dreaming.

No, neither can be warranted on the mere basis that one can thereby make mistakes. Universal MP tools are sheer bloat, and the primary purpose of separate keys for each step in a fixed combo is a combination of pretended depth and the enjoyment of varied button presses and their tactile cues. The two sets are fairly different.


Personally, I'd just like to see Lucid Dreaming removed, its potency per minute essentially made baseline, and for players to have the option of hitting just one button per combo, with non-choices (i.e., anything but restarting into an alternate combo or the next step of the current one) blocked out for fairness.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

DRK maybe, but PLD's MP is an illusion--the correct choice is to spend your whole bar during Requiescat, and therefore there is no choice.

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You don't spend all of it during req though. You also use the spells for ranged uptime (although it's true you have so much surplus MP it won't matter for the management by itself). The real reason to have MP is to make Clemency a limited resource, or at least force you adjust your rotation to maximize MP recovery instead of damage if you have to play blue healer. It's a really good feature for letting PLD have their healing capabilities without making healers completely redundant, since the more you have to step in the more severe the DPS tax gets.

MP is in a strange spot. The players who used to run out of MP most easily were the good players who were keeping near 100% uptime and constantly spending it. Medica II spammers rarely ran out of mana because their uptime tends to be 50-60% and their gear tended to be riddled with Piety because they don't care about stats. It doesn't even limit Raises that much in that example. In that regard it simply became a punishment for playing well.

If we wanted MP management to be a thing, it would take a full rework. Perhaps make dps casts free, or even a small mana restorative and make heals cost mana, including some oGCD's. Balance it so it didn't regenerate fast and it would essentially limit how much healing you have per encounter, encouraging planning and smart use of cheaper heals and discouraging blindly spamming GCD heals.
But it would mean bad players can potentially go OOM or bad tanks drain a healer too much and cause wipes, which would go against their policy of everything below Savage being clearable regardless of player skill.

As for the current state of healers, until we get that rework (if we ever do), what gets to me more is why is Piety still a thing? Seriously. It's frustrating when a 580 piece is worse than a 600ilv piece because of this nonsense stat. Get rid of it, or buff it with added damage so it becomes our bread and butter stat. I'm baffled how it survived an entire new expansion unchanged though.

I think MP is fine if it's used meaningfully. These days there is far too many oGCDs that cost nothing to use. The only time I run risk of running out is if I'm forced to res a lot.

For paladin, dark knight, and black mage, MP is more of a gauge to manage due to how rapidly it fluctuates.

Didn't like TP since aside from a couple skills, you couldn't manage it. It felt more like a way to punish you for DPSing too hard, especially if you had too much skill speed. It also meant classes that used TP shouldn't use sprint, since sprinting costed TP.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Not only should it be something to worry, I wanna bring back TP too.
Resource management is part of the fun of combat and without it you're just pressing buttons.

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As a former monk no, just no. Tp leaving was the best thing. MP needs higher cost but with some abilities give back mp like what ast/sage do. plus lower regen by like maybe 10% or so. something like that

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

As a former monk no, just no. Tp leaving was the best thing.

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This.

TP = "Here, I heard some people were taking Skill Speed beyond a minimum threshold, mistakenly thinking this game should offer gameplay choice through its stats. Let's fix that and make it very clear that only one stat should be king. Embrace BiS; reject customization."

yeah MP is pretty much irrelevant now

only matters on healers after death which at this point feels like really bad design (sage gauge gets wiped, they r completely cucked after a death)

everyone else also heals for a good chunk less AND have barely any mana to throw in some GCD heals as well to make up for their lack of output

maybe if healers got ressed with like 50% MP that would be nice, i dont think any caster DPS cares about MP, ever