Balancing the skill point rewards of the Guildleve System

While I do admit I wasn't thinking about the technical aspects of Linking and partying while making this suggestion, the intent is to leave EXP totals per reset as they are (or if anything, a little higher), but letting you do any Guildleves you want. Partying with people outside of your level range should be neither better nor worse than in the current system - it should be the same.

Whether this means that the pool should personal or not, I don't really care.

Do keep in mind that currently the bonus for simply being in a party is small. The pool increase would be too. It's the links/stars/favor that really increase exp gained, and those are what would have the biggest impact on the pool as well. None of these 3 are effected by the different ranks of the party members as far as I know.

This makes sense. I agree that GL's have severe balancing issues.

I'm assuming that if you fail a GL at the end you don't receive the remaining points in the pool?

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Originally Posted by kisada

I'm assuming that if you fail a GL at the end you don't receive the remaining points in the pool?

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You wouldn't get the remaining exp if you failed, otherwise you could fail them at the start to get the entire pool right away. You could get a small % of the pool if you fail after the 15min mark, but I believe we really need to move away from rewarding failure in this system.

There would be no need to fail guildleves on purpose unless you really really wanted to repeat that specific one, anyways, as doing any other guildleve would be as good as far as experience points go.

Another option would be to remove the auto-renewal of failed leves. Fail is fail then. And it would close another problem I just detailed in a separate thread.

Of course, it would make NM faction leves absolutely brutal to fail (bye bye 600 faction points). Perhaps those could be modified not to give SP but to auto-renew on failure.

Removing the renewal of failed leves without adjusting the system on a big scale would do nothing but piss people off. Likewise with renewed leves not giving skill points.

Most of our current guildleves are simply not viable for experience points.

Yes, it would definitely be a nerf to SP if they did that. But it would stop rewarding failure with extra SP :)

I think all that needs to happen is to allow us to choose from a larger list at each camp then just three leves, this way we could still coordinate to have all party members with the same leves. I wouldn't fail the leves if we could ensure all party members had the same ones on the next reset.

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Originally Posted by solracht

Please keep in mind that your last point is difficult to achieve - avoiding that approach is the reason why I suggested the solution I did. While the technical part behind adding an EXP Pool may be harder than simply boosting current mob exp rates, achieving the same end result is way harder with your approach, as you have to take care of leves on an individual basis, while also taking into account whether extra mobs can spawn or not.

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You'd also have to take care of leves on an individual basis with your system, too.

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Originally Posted by solracht

This would make most guildleves equal, except for the completition time. However, The difference between the time needed to complete two different guildleves, barring being really unlucky with some necrologos/drop ones, is minimal.

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The time difference is not minimal. Some leves take at least 20 minutes to complete (any kind of defense leves, Lightsome Verdue, Adamantime Wills, Thousandfold Agony, etc), others take around 10 miniutes (Dunesfolk, Levinshower, Inferno, Catch a Thief, Securing Horizon, Wights, Moon's Mistress, Save the Lettuce, that jellyfish leve at SV, etc), and some leaves take 5 minutes or less to finish (Where's the Meat, Most Imp leves, etc).

They're not all as similar in completion time as you think.

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Originally Posted by solracht

Just being realistic here, I do not think they'll be able to correctly balance guildleves if they try to "hand-craft" the exp rewards.

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You'll need to do the same amount of "hand-crafting" with my solution as yours.

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Originally Posted by solracht

It also doesn't address the fact that most leves you'll do will still be about killing mobs. By using the "Pool" system, you give the devs a lot of freedom in what type of leves they can make, and which objectives they can attach to them, as the exp reward will be good regardless because of the Pool.

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Since when is this a problem? That should be the basis of the objective. These are "battlecraft leves", afterall. I disagree about your system giving the devs "more freedom". It actually restricts them since they have to consider the time restraint and making all leves take the same amount of time to finish. This would render all defense leves useless.
If they didn't have to worry about the time restraint, they could design some leves last to last about 10 minutes (with the player getting about 5,000 SP each time), and then design some other leves that last about 20 minutes (with the player getting about 12,000 SP each time).

This way SP/hour is constant (with the longer leve getting slightly more SP/hour to balance it out), and to also balance for relative value disparity, the 20 minute leve could contain bonuses for faction points, or guildmarks, or items, or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

allow us to choose from a larger list at each camp then just three leves, this way we could still coordinate to have all party members with the same leves. I wouldn't fail the leves if we could ensure all party members had the same ones on the next reset.

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Agreed. This is part of my suggested changes and this alone takes away about 50% of the desire to fail leves on purpose.

I have to run so unfortunately my reply will be short (I'll reply with something longer later) but I think the problem is I might be giving the time you spend per reset less importance than the skill ups you get per reset, at least compared to you. I feel like if two people can get their 150k from the leve reset, they'll be content even if one of them finishes 40mins earlier every now and then.

Those 20min leves you brought up are actually a problem (and frankly they're horrible leves) but they would not take 20mins as mentioned by the fix at the top, which was making pages drop instantly once the pool is at 20%.

Appreciate all the comments and criticism.

TC I think its a great idea although it needs some adjustments and tweaks to fit into the party system but I love it because like you said, the leves don't have to be centered around killing a lot of mobs, they can be more story driven with some battle in between because at the end you'll earn your pool's full potential. I like it, I suggest you copy this topic into the General Forums so it gets a little more publicity, because if you don't I will (and I will take credit for it! :P kidding, but do it!)