Bard LB feedback

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Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

Bard's LB needs to be able to apply at range, imo. Maybe like... Making your next shot on target the source of the bonus rather than you. Just my thoughts though.

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?? The LB already has longer range than any of BRD attacks, you can safely cast it from backlines as long as you have line of sight on your team (= as long as you are not playing on volcanic map, f that place).

Repelling Shot is perfectly fine, it has 10 yalms range so you can end up up to 20 yalms away, plus with bind on target all it takes is two steps to be in range for full damage. If the leap was 15 yalms you'd easily be out of range if you used it on stragglers running away after a team fight, 10 yalms jump is fine.

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Originally Posted by Terhix

?? The LB already has longer range than any of BRD attacks, you can safely cast it from backlines as long as you have line of sight on your team (= as long as you are not playing on volcanic map, f that place).

Repelling Shot is perfectly fine, it has 10 yalms range so you can end up up to 20 yalms away, plus with bind on target all it takes is two steps to be in range for full damage. If the leap was 15 yalms you'd easily be out of range if you used it on stragglers running away after a team fight, 10 yalms jump is fine.

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As long as you have line of sight being the iterative part there. And yeah the range on it is fantastic but if, for instance, you're playing on the map with the tornados/knock up and you're fighting on a checkpoint - good luck using LB without putting yourself in the thick of it lol. Premise is that when Bard's LB is most needed is when it's often the most dangerous to use. Though in retrospect that seems to apply for a lot of its kit.

And Repelling Shot is fine. Not great, but it's fine. Using it on stragglers running away requires you to have to sprint closer toward them than you would to deal damage so you have to make the choice of: "Do I get this bind for a few seconds" or "Do I get two whole arse GCDs worth of damage in while at the prescribed range for max damage". Ain't the best.

Repelling shot is great. I prefer it way more than MCH knockback. That said, BRD LB is really underwhelming imo.

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Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

As long as you have line of sight being the iterative part there. And yeah the range on it is fantastic but if, for instance, you're playing on the map with the tornados/knock up and you're fighting on a checkpoint - good luck using LB without putting yourself in the thick of it lol. Premise is that when Bard's LB is most needed is when it's often the most dangerous to use. Though in retrospect that seems to apply for a lot of its kit.

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I think you meant "imperative" but yeah, fair enough. If it went through walls like Lammas suggested earlier, I think that would alleviate a lot of pain.

BRD ult is very strong. LB charge means your team gets their LB back faster and the 10% damage buff stacks with the two buffs you are already providing - your team gets +20% damage for 30 seconds and you get three stacks of haste. It's extremely strong. All of the 120 sec charge timer LBs are.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

BRD ult is very strong. LB charge means your team gets their LB back faster and the 10% damage buff stacks with the two buffs you are already providing - your team gets +20% damage for 30 seconds and you get three stacks of haste. It's extremely strong. All of the 120 sec charge timer LBs are.

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That's a bit of a stretch, Blast Arrow only lasts 10s, so at best you are looking at 20 seconds of full buffs. Compare it to AST stacking The Balance with LB for +40%/+30%/+20% in 5 second windows (plus mitigation), which just works better in the burst meta. Then you add the fact that with AST you are guaranteeing that your team unloads their all of their LB first. 30% personal haste is nice, but even with 30% haste and 10% damage you will be hard pressed to break any damage records at the end of the game since BRD personal damage baseline just isn't that great. *

The LB is not weak, but you have a lot of eggs riding in that 120s basket. You suffer the opportunity cost early game (that AST does not), and to get full benefit your whole team has to be alive, and in line of sight, and has to survive full 30 seconds after, and you have to survive the animation lock while you cast it to begin with.

*edit: to make sure I'm not misconstrued, I'm not saying that Bard is bad or weak here, the toolkit outside of LB is perfectly fine, damage is just not its strength.

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Originally Posted by Terhix

That's a bit of a stretch, Blast Arrow only lasts 10s, so at best you are looking at 20 seconds of full buffs. Compare it to AST stacking The Balance with LB for +40%/+30%/+20% in 5 second windows (plus mitigation), which just works better in the burst meta. Then you add the fact that with AST you are guaranteeing that your team unloads their all of their LB first. 30% personal haste is nice, but even with 30% haste and 10% damage you will be hard pressed to break any damage records at the end of the game since BRD personal damage baseline just isn't that great.

The LB is not weak, but you have a lot of eggs riding in that 120s basket. You suffer the opportunity cost early game (that AST does not), and to get full benefit your whole team has to be alive, and in line of sight, and has to survive full 30 seconds after, and you have to survive the animation lock while you cast it to begin with.

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That's really not asking that much. Being in LOS of your team is kind of a given to begin with, unlike some LBs you don't need to be in the open to activate it (just dip behind a wall to trigger it), and there are quite a few LBs that end immediately if the user dies (SMN, SCH, SGE, etc.)

BRD has very good, reliable damage output due to their haste and a very powerful, long duration silence. Keep in mind AST deals less damage and has less health than BRD and you aren't guaranteed to pull The Balance - more often you'll get the comparatively weak The Ewer. AST's LB also ends if they die, just like BRD's. True, it's less likely to happen with that 30% vuln down effect, but AST's only lasts 15 sec and loses a third of its potency every 5 sec, whereas BRD's lasts 30 sec and has full effects throughout, and they're both on the same 120 sec charge timer. And don't forget, BRD also gets "Aquaveil, if Aquaveil didn't suck" too. Standard practice for AST is to just pack it up and leave when they pop LB since fighting into it is dumb. But BRD's lasts so long it's not really an option.

But the comparison is better between BRD and the other ranged DPS. And frankly I'll take BRD over MCH in high skill games every single time. DNC might edge out BRD in organized team games (remains to be seen), but BRD functions well in solo queue and is far more effective than MCH vs high skill players. Realistically, you're getting BRD with SCH or AST since those healers dominate high skill games, so it's really you stacking your +10% on top of their +10%. It's a huge boost to your team's output.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

That's really not asking that much. Being in LOS of your team is kind of a given to begin with, unlike some LBs you don't need to be in the open to activate it (just dip behind a wall to trigger it), and there are quite a few LBs that end immediately if the user dies (SMN, SCH, SGE, etc.)

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How do you "dip behind a wall" and not be out of LOS? Or do you mean the whole team doing that when regrouping? It really is mostly a problem on Volcanic Heart, and I did climb to Crystal over the weekend now simply by avoiding that map altogether.

And yeah, BRD is obviously not the only Job that can have its LB wasted, but a single wasted BRD LB is like WHM wasting two of theirs in a row. Just for that reason alone I'd rather have a 15s buff on 60s recharge than 30s on 120s.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

BRD has very good, reliable damage output due to their haste and a very powerful, long duration silence. Keep in mind AST deals less damage and has less health than BRD and you aren't guaranteed to pull The Balance - more often you'll get the comparatively weak The Ewer. AST's LB also ends if they die, just like BRD's. True, it's less likely to happen with that 30% vuln down effect, but AST's only lasts 15 sec and loses a third of its potency every 5 sec, whereas BRD's lasts 30 sec and has full effects throughout, and they're both on the same 120 sec charge timer. And don't forget, BRD also gets "Aquaveil, if Aquaveil didn't suck" too. Standard practice for AST is to just pack it up and leave when they pop LB since fighting into it is dumb. But BRD's lasts so long it's not really an option.

But the comparison is better between BRD and the other ranged DPS. And frankly I'll take BRD over MCH in high skill games every single time. DNC might edge out BRD in organized team games (remains to be seen), but BRD functions well in solo queue and is far more effective than MCH vs high skill players. Realistically, you're getting BRD with SCH or AST since those healers dominate high skill games, so it's really you stacking your +10% on top of their +10%. It's a huge boost to your team's output.

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I added an asterisk with edit but a bit too late I suppose. I'm not sure about AST doing less damage, but both AST and BRD do overall pretty well in current meta. BRD LB really could be better (if only just easier to execute, particularly on Volcanic) without making the job OP.

BRD LB is persistent. It's not like it applies a 30 sec buff once when cast and then stops. It applies the buff to all valid targets within range and LOS. You can dip behind a wall, cast it, and then move back out and it's fine. Or just run far enough away that the enemy can't punish you while you play your flute for a couple seconds.

BRD has a far stronger kit than WHM does. So does AST, SCH, SGE, SMN, etc. You *really* need to stop being so fixated on Limit Breaks.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

BRD LB is persistent. It's not like it applies a 30 sec buff once when cast and then stops. It applies the buff to all valid targets within range and LOS. You can dip behind a wall, cast it, and then move back out and it's fine. Or just run far enough away that the enemy can't punish you while you play your flute for a couple seconds.

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No sir, that is exactly wrong. It does apply a 30 sec buff once when cast, if your party is not in line of sight when you cast it they don't get the buff, period. There are people suggesting to change that to channeling the buff as you move around in this very thread.

Edit: Played a quick casual game to take this screenshot: cast LB behind a wall, moved into the brawl, I have 22 seconds left on Final Fantasia, two people are in LOS now, but nobody in my party has Heroes' Fantasia.

https://i.postimg.cc/PqzvvJdj/bardlb.png