Lets talk about the NERF..

With rampage revamped for increased parry, is Overpower more useful now? It's on a 5-6 second cooldown and hits all mobs in a cone and costs little TP. If parry is decent enough, it's damage could add up over time (not to mention the pacification skill)

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Originally Posted by carlosx

was realy nesesary?

do SE notice now we dont have a tank?

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Was not the original idea the Paladin being the tanking powerhouse and the Warrior being a DD powerhouse? so now your whining because you cant do both at the same time. I mean i dont know but i think the point is for every class to have some use at endgame you can still from what i hear either tank or DPS but not both. I dont understand why your so butthurt about this.

Did some quick testing on the 5 star GC leves at Halatali. Every mob was level 52.

With Rampage up, Steel Cyclone crit damage ranged from ~500-1000 against the same mob. What caused the difference?

When only one mob was attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 500-600 damage. When I had 3+ mobs attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 800-1000 damage. Now take a look at the patch notes on Rampage:

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<Before>
Increases your attack speed and power for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land.
<After>
Increases your attack speed and parry rating for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land.
・Effect now wears off at a faster rate.

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My guess is that the effect on Rampage decays so quickly that it can never be fully stacked when fighting only one mob. Thus, you will never get the full bonus damage to Steel Cyclone unless you are tanking multiple mobs.

This is all just eyeballing of course. Wish I had some numbers pre-patch so that I could compare. If someone wants to do better testing, please feel free to do so.

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Originally Posted by Ranulf

Just goes to show you, SE has learned nothing from XI.

You don't achieve balance by taking the good and making it bad, you take the bad and make it better.

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This. Will they ever learn?

Warror is my main class. The emnity thing regarding Collusion isn't an issue for myself. I've never relied on it for any strategical fights, but Steel Cycle something rather useful. Incredibly useful in fact. I didn't rely on it for DD, but to kite, which is something I've always seen the WAR class good as in regards to tanking styles. PLD is the "sit there and take it in the face" type class, which should have been buffed for balance, not put next to a WAR nerf for balance.

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Originally Posted by kro

Did some quick testing on the 5 star GC leves at Halatali. Every mob was level 52.

With Rampage up, Steel Cyclone crit damage ranged from ~500-1000 against the same mob. What caused the difference?

When only one mob was attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 500-600 damage. When I had 3+ mobs attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 800-1000 damage. Now take a look at the patch notes on Rampage:



My guess is that the effect on Rampage decays so quickly that it can never be fully stacked when fighting only one mob. Thus, you will never get the full bonus damage to Steel Cyclone unless you are tanking multiple mobs.

This is all just eyeballing of course. Wish I had some numbers pre-patch so that I could compare. If someone wants to do better testing, please feel free to do so.

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This is just speculation, but it appears as though PLD and WAR damage is almost equal now vs. a single target while tanking. Warrior has only one viable and spamable weaponskill (30 second recast) chain set while tanking while Paladin has two (both at 1 minute recast which can easily be alternated). Against a lv 52 monster in natalan Goring Blade provided ~550 points of damage while a full (or nearly full) Spirits within did ~750 damage (and phalanx can be spamable for ~280 damge ever 6 seconds for 250 tp with Divine Veil active). Please note that this information was gathered before this hotfix, so Goring blade may well do over 600+ damage against these foes.

It seems SE has finally made war into the optimal AoE tank without overshadowing PLD capacity on single target bosses.

true but still pld didnt get anything in this patch at all to help. War is still better than pld. Hollowed Ground is only good for holy shit moments really. The HP they dont lose now from changing from Gla doesnt help. the only minimal extra dmg from the ws dont help. not saying that Pld should even come close to the dmg that war can but haviong and Aoe emnity combo with a short timers would help alot.

PLD recieved some decent upgraded mechanics. They are subtle, but still better than nothing. And now warrior was brought down to earth. I cannot wait to test the new mechanics on my PLD and WAR. /excitement

Also, Mighty strikes isn't much better. As a tank I place increased damage invulnerability over short duration, increased damage.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

not saying that Pld should even come close to the dmg that war can but haviong and Aoe emnity combo with a short timers would help alot.

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War Drum seems unchanged since launch back in 2009. An overhaul of this would probably be adequate; as for now it DOES NOT generate "Massive Enmity" as it's description suggests; atleast not by 1.21 standards.

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Originally Posted by Hoshikogi

PLD recieved some decent upgraded mechanics. They are subtle, but still better than nothing. And now warrior was brought down to earth. I cannot wait to test the new mechanics on my PLD and WAR. /excitement

Also, Mighty strikes isn't much better. As a tank I place increased damage invulnerability over short duration, increased damage.

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There isnt much to test though the only thing pld got besides not losing hp from switching from pld is Hollowed Ground which isnt all that great. I havent tested the dmg of the Gla ws but iv heard in to a bit increase either and still they are the single aoe hitting ws that dont help pld much keeping hate either.