I Love 6.11 White Mage--But Should Afflatus Misery be Given Earlier?

But wouldn't you just end up in a situation where you're just using lilies on cooldown for damage? I feel I'd be out of lilies when I actually need them.

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Originally Posted by Mae_Proet

I see. So you want assize to have two charges, so it can have the flexibility it once had? I've only been playing since Shb, so I'm working from there. But still, I feel like charges is something you just use on cooldown. I'd rather they do something more interesting with the existing skills than just add charges.

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Not necessarily. You would use them to the point where you do not cap on charges. Take SGE’s Phelgma for instance: you blow both charges in the opener under buffs, and from there, you can hold on to a charge if you need it for movement versus losing a cast at all. Likewise with Assize charges, you could actually save one for healing if necessary versus using on cooldown for damage with no flexibility to the skill.

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As for overhealing, I really don't need two charges of tetra. I've been fine even with some of the awful teams I gotten. Even in the savage fights I've seen my brother play (as I don't do harder content), they don't seem to have any need for more healing. This is another reason why I'd prefer making existing skills more interesting than add charges to them.

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It is true that healing requirements are low. But healer playstyle is usually oGCDs > GCDs, so the two charges sort of fits more into that playstyle. The change to the Lilies being DPS neutral has alleviated the issue of damage loss caused by GCD heals. But before then, it would be much worse to have to use Solace versus having a second Tetra charge. I could think of instances where it would be beneficial. And if they aren’t used, then they aren’t used. It doesn’t hurt to add it.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

WHM just needs an overhaul from the ground up. Too many key skills are locked at the end of the leveling spectrum, especially since the majority of them are just replacements for old removed skills, or are just copies of existing skills.

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They had no business removing Largesse only to give it back 40 levels later as a "brand new ability" when it could've just upgrade to it. The same idea can be done with several spells/abilities so WHM isn't so painfully bareboned below 60. Heck, Solace is basically just "gcd Tetra" all the way to 74

What WHM needs:

- Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Misery should be learned at level 30. Afflatus Misery's damage needs to scale with Stone/Glare and receive a potency increase with each Stone Mastery/Glare Mastery trait.
- WHM's GCD healing library needs to be reworked. Expand on the lily system and prune mediocre heals. Cure II and Medica can stay as the only non-lily GCD heals but should award a lily when used. This makes it so that when WHM has no lilies, Cure II and Medica actually help healers catch up when behind rather than just being shitty buttons. You should not need them under normal circumstances.
- A spell that does not cost a lily but nourishes the blood lily one time on the GCD with a 3 second cast time. This makes it a DPS loss, but allows you to nourish the blood lily during downtime without burning lilies and over-healing unnecessarily.
- Precursor abilities at lower levels, such as Protect which later upgrades into Aquaveil and Divine Seal which later upgrades into Temperance. This helps give WHM more things to do at lower levels while also helping new or learning healers get comfortable with weaving more.
- Give WHM a simple, yet meaningful DPS kit. A tool I would love to see would be Water/Banish, a GCD spell with a 15 second cooldown and 3 charges. It deals the same damage as Stone/Glare but is instant cast, deals 50% damage to all remaining enemies, and makes your next spell cost 50% less MP. This could replace Thin Air and act as a mobility tool for weaving, also allowing Stone/Glare and Holy to be longer cast spells. It would change up how WHM approaches DPS a little more and foils against BLM's design thematically.
- Give Assize a second charge. This means WHM isn't compelled to use it exactly on cooldown and can reserve it as a healing resource.

These changes would do a lot to smoothen out WHM's gameplay, help it feel more exciting at earlier levels, be more fun to play overall, and be a better introduction into healing for new players.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

What WHM needs:

- Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Misery should be learned at level 30. Afflatus Misery's damage needs to scale with Stone/Glare and receive a potency increase with each Stone Mastery/Glare Mastery trait.
- WHM's GCD healing library needs to be reworked. Expand on the lily system and prune mediocre heals. Cure II and Medica can stay as the only non-lily GCD heals but should award a lily when used. This makes it so that when WHM has no lilies, Cure II and Medica actually help healers catch up when behind rather than just being shitty buttons. You should not need them under normal circumstances.

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With the introduction of Afflatus Misery at lower levels, it's also possible to rework Plenary Indulgence and Temperance to reward GCD healing playstyle and turn Regen, Cure II and Medica to useful buttons.

Plenary Indulgence (20 second buff) - 30 second cooldown. Level 70 - 2 charges.
1. Apply 1 stack of Thin Air to self.
2. Apply 1 stack of Confession to self: The next Medica is doubled in potency, Cure II has 200 increased potency, Cure III is instant cast.
3. When Confession is consumed, Nourish the blood lily.

Divine Seal (20 second buff) - Level 40
1. Increases healing magic potency by 20%.
2. Apply 1 stack of Restraint to self: The next Regen adds 50% of its heal over time amount to its initial heal, cost no MP, but will no longer heal over time.
3. When Restraint is consumed, Nourish the blood lily.
4. When Restraint expires instead, generate 1 healing lily.

Temperance (20 second buff) - Level 80
1. Increases healing magic potency by 20%, while reducing damage taken by self and all party members within a radius of 30 yalms by 10%.
2. Apply 1 stack of Restraint to self: The next Medica II or Regen adds 50% of its heal over time amount to its initial heal, will have no cast time, cost no MP, but will no longer heal over time.
3. When Restraint is consumed, Nourish the blood lily.
4. When Restraint expires instead, generate 1 healing lily.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

- WHM's GCD healing library needs to be reworked. Expand on the lily system and prune mediocre heals. Cure II and Medica can stay as the only non-lily GCD heals but should award a lily when used. This makes it so that when WHM has no lilies, Cure II and Medica actually help healers catch up when behind rather than just being shitty buttons. You should not need them under normal circumstances.
- A spell that does not cost a lily but nourishes the blood lily one time on the GCD with a 3 second cast time. This makes it a DPS loss, but allows you to nourish the blood lily during downtime without burning lilies and over-healing unnecessarily.

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These are bad ideas because you are giving WHM way too much power during downtime. RPR needs 5 seconds of downtime to gain 600 potency with Soulsow-Harvest Moon and WHM would only need one additional second to gain more than double the potency. Downtime Afflatus Misery is already very powerful as is, no need to make the generation of a massive 1240p nuke as well as a potential generation of a minimum of 1200p AoE healing easier than it already is. It would be a nightmare to balance.

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Originally Posted by rewd

These are bad ideas because you are giving WHM way too much power during downtime. RPR needs 5 seconds of downtime to gain 600 potency with Soulsow-Harvest Moon and WHM would only need one additional second to gain more than double the potency. Downtime Afflatus Misery is already very powerful as is, no need to make the generation of a massive 1240p nuke as well as a potential generation of a minimum of 1200p AoE healing easier than it already is. It would be a nightmare to balance.

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The lily system creates an environment where optimized play encourages WHMs to reserve Lilies for downtime anyway whenever possible and there's no way around that. Yes it's a lot of potency on WHM, and perhaps the solution is to lower its numbers overall, but creating a way to nourish your blood lily during downtime is the only way to prevent optimized WHM gameplay from trying hard to reserve healing resources for downtime.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The lily system creates an environment where optimized play encourages WHMs to reserve Lilies for downtime anyway whenever possible and there's no way around that. Yes it's a lot of potency on WHM, and perhaps the solution is to lower its numbers overall, but creating a way to nourish your blood lily during downtime is the only way to prevent optimized WHM gameplay from trying hard to reserve healing resources for downtime.

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You don't double down on a issue just because the issue already exists. A WHM rework should aim at creating a healthy, interesting and engaging connection between lilies and Afflatus Misery, which is currently lacking. It is absolutely not true that there's no way around toxic downtime behaviour.

Decouple Afflatus Misery (and make it a 60s cooldown) from lilies and make lilies oGCDs. Done. It is boring, but so is your suggestion. Lilies need to be reworked from the ground up, these are only band-aid solutions and as such undesirable.

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Originally Posted by rewd

You don't double down on a issue just because the issue already exists. A WHM rework should aim at creating a healthy, interesting and engaging connection between lilies and Afflatus Misery, which is currently lacking. It is absolutely not true that there's no way around toxic downtime behaviour.

Decouple Afflatus Misery (and make it a 60s cooldown) from lilies and make lilies oGCDs. Done. It is boring, but so is your suggestion. Lilies need to be reworked from the ground up, these are only band-aid solutions and as such undesirable.

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Cool, now WHM is even more homogenized. Love it.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Cool, now WHM is even more homogenized. Love it.

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A "You are right, WHM's downtime problem can be solved" would have sufficed.