A collection of issues raised by community.

About BLM, i would like Burst to be an instant cast or have a bit more to it to slightly increase survivability and for Fire to be a more viable option. As it is now, its taking to long and too low of a reward for the set up, may be a bit stonger DoT, but shorter or perhaps a bit more burst of damage? Fire rarely gets any use from my experience as the speed of the game is very fast and swingy.

LB could also use some recast time reduction as it is extremely slow compared to other LBs while making you an obvious walking purple Christmas Tree.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

BLM and SMN are fine the way they are kitwise.

As for the CC Part mentioned, i disagree partly. CC distribution in itself is quite good for the MOST part.

- Silence should be changed into something similar like its counterpart in PvE, it should only prevent specific Skills/Spells from being used, not all of them.
- some Skills like Verflare which magically bypass Guard should be readjusted for that part alone, there are too many Shield piercing Skills that arent even mentioned that they should even do so in the first place.
- Increase Elixir Timer to 8-12sec, it is way too fast for most Jobs to react with a 2,5sec GCD.
- Make either WHM LB OR Polymorph uncleanseable, not both.
- Give SCH (and the other Healers too) a better Dps Tool instead of Broil, even if it is a long hardcasted nuke or a melee Skill.
- allow SAM LB to be mitigated partly trough Guard, even if it just 10-20%.HP left on target.
- as for Purify, IF it gets a immunity time increased effect, increase also its CD.

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I can see where you're coming from but if a job has a CC that ignores a whole mechanic then that job will always be picked over anything else, the first step to seeing a variation of healers on the field it to make the one that's favoured not so favoured.

That's also like giving a Samurai two CC and then saying 'well a Samurais weakness is you just move out 4Head' but then you've gone and given them two ways to keep you in place, so, you've just negated that supposed weakness and that means they have none.

Purify and Guard should definitely be priority and above all else and yeah, potion timer is so short people at higher ranks will just use it next to a fight because you know nobody is going to interrupt you hahaha.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

A lot of good points. Though personally, I'd say dragoon is fine in the position it's in currently as it has literally no utility outside of the damage they bring. That, coupled with the fact their LB has counterplay (make the marker more obvious please) I'd say puts them in a decent spot. Then again, I main dragoon myself so I'm probably biased lol. Side rant, but rank is absolutely not an indication of one's skill level in its current state and that should not be the case. The changes they did this patch are way too mild to actually shift the balance around in any meaningful way (also they fixed warrior healing on their entire GCD combo which is super neat)

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Personally I am okay with their damage, I've questioned it sometimes mostly the radius of the aoe but what's been consistent is the amount of times I've used guard thinking my the enemy dragoon used lb when it was my Ally.

Also the bug where they use their LB but their body stays on the ground and moves around untargetable is funny as hell.

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Originally Posted by Balmung_Griffin

SQEX inability to communicate and act quickly will ultimately kill the mode.

It's a pity because they have a good foundation and I think it's possible to nurture this mode into something beautiful working TOGETHER with the community.

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Preach brother. They only do that for the PVP community. They have these people acting like an abused girlfriend who's happy to receive any scrap of attention. 'Well at least square enix did some potency changes lowered cc duration and fixed a bug that literally has changed nothing except for show how busted it was, anyway, you should be grateful they even gave us that'. Wack.

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Originally Posted by Lymberey

About BLM, i would like Burst to be an instant cast or have a bit more to it to slightly increase survivability and for Fire to be a more viable option. As it is now, its taking to long and too low of a reward for the set up, may be a bit stonger DoT, but shorter or perhaps a bit more burst of damage? Fire rarely gets any use from my experience as the speed of the game is very fast and swingy.

LB could also use some recast time reduction as it is extremely slow compared to other LBs while making you an obvious walking purple Christmas Tree.

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On the matter of Fire, i think it is Fair potencywise. BLM is more about harassment rather than nuking someone down, and Burst/Foul are your finishers. The Dot from Fire is a excellent tool to prevent NIN to go into stealth btw, even if you just trigger Superflare at 1 Stack.

As for the LB, it is currently really powerful, if you play correctly, you can set yourself up in a way, where you can cast 2 Fouls in a very short amount of time, but depending on the situation youre in, its not always the best choice to do so.

Fire is indeed ok potency wise, but i think it is not as good as ice as a harassment tool as it takes 12 second for the full effect. I was thinking about 4k for 9s. The same potency but a bit faster to make it more viable during team fight and LB. Still, 3s deep freeze is still stronger in many situation imo.

About the LB, i was comparing it to other LBs which are mostly instantaneous, and doesn’t make you an obvious target. The LB is closely tied to BLM kit so it takes a lot of time to get the full value from it. 15s is pretty long to get it all out, so i think 12s or so should be more fitting for the speed of the game. Going faster and stronger as a trade-off for being a squishy Christmas Tree is kinda interesting for me.

About Foul though, i think its in a good spot after the 6.11 potency buff.

Queue's seem to be grouped ~1 tier up and below besides the end tiers so:

Unranked: Unranked <-> Silver
Bronze: Unranked <-> Silver
Silver: Unranked <-> Gold
Gold: Bronze <-> Platinum (no more unranked teammates and so is often a huge shift in how games feel)
Plat: Gold <-> Diamond
Diamond: Plat <-> Crystal (another huge shift in how matches are played again)
Crystal: Plat <->Crystal

If someone is on a hard enough streak, it pushes them up a tier so you will occasionally see Plats against Crystal and Gold against Diamond etc.

In general, I'd say the following:

Unranked: No knowledge of the game mode as they're brand new.

Bronze: Haven't learned to focus targets, how to pick priorities, play the objective properly, or how to do damage properly.

Silver: Know how to focus a target and do damage, minimum understanding of the objective, still can't decide how to prioritize targets.

Gold: Decent understanding of the objective, still can't decide how to prioritize targets.

Platinum: Pieces start to come together, but people don't know how the strengths and weaknesses of multiple classes to know counters. Occasional targeting issue, but not as bad as lower elo where you'll find more people ignoring marked targets.

Diamond: People that have learned to be more consistent by avoiding deaths better than lower elo, they know how to burst and cc targets, good understanding of their main class, and know how to beat certain matchup's/comps. Shotcalling/target priority is significantly improved compared to Platinum and below, but still not perfect. Often are significantly more aggressive and play-making orientated compared to Crystal as that type of mentality is what gets you to Diamond in the first place.

Crystal: Best at macro'ing the game. Most likely to pull comebacks properly, most likely to be even k/da wise on a losing team, risk aversive, have near perfected the meta classes and know how to abuse them. However, since most Crystal only played meta to climb, they end up being Gold/Plat'ish as soon as they switch classes and get stomped out by Diamonds on their main class because they don't know the playstyle and their role in the team. A lot of times my best teammates are fellow Diamond players instead of Crystal just because most Crystal's don't seem to actually care about their performance anymore like that unless they're on the top 100. All of the best Crystal's on Aether I'd like to have on my team after over 200 games in Diamond/Crystal elo, are all on the leaderboard, most top 50, as Sage or Sam.

Personally, I'd change it to the following:
Unranked: Unranked <-> Bronze
Bronze: Unranked <-> Silver
Silver: Bronze <-> Gold (gets rid of the 2nd elo hell ppl describe)
Gold: Silver <-> Plat
Plat: Gold <->Diamond3-5
Diamond3-5: Plat<->Diamond 1
Diamond1&2: Diamond 2<->Crystal
Crystal: Diamond 2<-> Crystal

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Originally Posted by Lymberey

Fire is indeed ok potency wise, but i think it is not as good as ice as a harassment tool as it takes 12 second for the full effect. I was thinking about 4k for 9s. The same potency but a bit faster to make it more viable during team fight and LB. Still, 3s deep freeze is still stronger in many situation imo.

About the LB, i was comparing it to other LBs which are mostly instantaneous, and doesn’t make you an obvious target. The LB is closely tied to BLM kit so it takes a lot of time to get the full value from it. 15s is pretty long to get it all out, so i think 12s or so should be more fitting for the speed of the game. Going faster and stronger as a trade-off for being a squishy Christmas Tree is kinda interesting for me.

About Foul though, i think its in a good spot after the 6.11 potency buff.

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Agreed. Fire isn't competitive with ice. The potency of the Burn dot is nowhere near high enough to compete with the utility of Deep Freeze.
Low potency sustained damage is only good for padding the meter, outside the very niche case of pulling NIN out of stealth.
If Fire stacks increased the potency of the dot instead of the duration, you'd have a legitimate situational choice to make.

I'd welcome the CC changes, it's just too much atm. Purify needs a buff and polymorph needs a nerf, it's almost like an LB at this point. And I abuse it like a madman.

I still think Purify needs two charges. It's not even OP enough to completely shift battle outside of 1v1 due to just the sheer amount of AOE going out at any given time. Some would call "having to deal with an aoe stun is strategy" but to those people I would say also it's dumb design to require people to fight server ping on the wind map for a feather placement or use up all their guard in a fight when tornados appear.

I just want a way to mitigate against the SERVER screwing me not even other players. I'm so tired of getting screwed not by my skill but my server. Watching guard not go off for a full 1-3 seconds, watching purify not go off or not cure silence when it's supposed to, the immunity buff not procing etc.


The two possible outcomes of two purify charges are:

1. A player spams it twice back to back in order to provide the immunity they're supposed to get, or avoid even one of the gajillion status ailments they're getting hammered with.
2. A player is able to purify two cc skills in a small period of time out of 5 possible hits from the enemy party, not including stacks of aoes.

CC should not just be a "spam spam spam" skill but should be a strategic asset to the kit to secure a kill. If I'm even 2/3rds health I can get stun locked into death if the enemy party is even half awake and/or it's 2v1. Dying because they dps me down? That's one thing, but dying because Raiju/fleeting raiju EACH have a 3s stun and I have no punishment method other than to spam recuperate to delay the inevitable? Lame.

If I want to lock in a kill as GNB I have to hope that the other party member can't cc me and/or can't outrun me to a pot and/or can't recuperate. Even if the target has other options you can use a stun as they get close to death or silence and literally shut them down to counters. I don't think that's fair as it's not limited to "squishier" classes or even "low dps" classes. The extra dps ends up being a net negative because you can't secure a kill more reliably as you have no control over your opponent.

I can use rough divide all day long but if they bind/stun me or whm turns me into an imp they're going to have more than enough time to save themselves. Spiking (to me) is useless if you can't secure a kill. The pressure you put on the enemy party is "fine" but then you realize they can just cc destroy you and then move to the next party member and then elixir to top themselves off, making the pressure of them using recuperate less useful when even BRD from the backlines can silence you and kickback bind, stopping you once again.

The weird thing is both my faves, SGE and GNB, are both meant to burst then flee but because they're tanks and healers it puts a target on their backs immediately with little self sustain/cc options outside of kardia to myself in order to apply a barrier to myself in order to heal myself but hten that means I'm providing ZERO utility to the party until I try to cast Pnuema and get stunned/transformed/lb'd out of it. If Kardia applied to both my target and myself I'd literally stop complaining about that because then it would mean that I'm not giving up 90% of my heal potential to keep myself from dying, but without CC that's what I have to do currently.

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Originally Posted by Bureda

That's also like giving a Samurai two CC and then saying 'well a Samurais weakness is you just move out 4Head' but then you've gone and given them two ways to keep you in place, so, you've just negated that supposed weakness and that means they have none

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That's the other issue. You have some classes who literally have zero CC who aren't prone to the same issues that other classes that technically do the same thing don't have to worry about. I'd happily trade a bit of damage as SGE for even one punishment/defensive Utility skill. Icarus isn't enough when they can blink in my direction with CC and nullify its use. Bind? Can't use it. Silence? Can't use it. Stun can't use it.

Yeah SGE and GNB can do damage but it requires the other party to literally leave you unchallenged to do so properly. A high risk/high reward dps system makes sense if it wasn't for half the dps having more cc/utility than both SGE and GNB combined. That's not even taking into account that RDM can literally go in with white shift and barrier itself or swap to barrier mid combo if needed to defend itself

The more I think about purify, the more I'm convinced that they tested jobs 1v1 and disregarded that some horrendous team composition are possible.

A NIN can double stun you and a WHM can follow up with a poly and you're dead. Now imagine that plus a WAR and a SAM.

And then we have jobs with 0 CC, are they really that much stronger to compensate that?

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Originally Posted by Balmung_Griffin

The more I think about purify, the more I'm convinced that they tested jobs 1v1 and disregarded that some horrendous team composition are possible.

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Yeah I broke this down on another thread too:

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

I don't mind dying to DPS, that makes sense, but silence > stun > Silence > stun > stun is so awful. If they only had a few skills to use cc with I'd understand but when WAR has aoe stun every 15s and WHM LB....exists it means that no matter how good you're doing or how you time your purify because the classes will be able to immediately stun you again. With Purfiy being 30s that means WAR has two chances to stun you in a single window.

War can Rend twice.
PLD can shield bash twice.
NIN can Raiju twice.
AST can heavy/bind twice.
MNK can six star twice.
SAM can stun then silence you.
BRD can Silence then Bind you.

This doesn't take into account multiple people vs 1 player, WHM LB, or other possible combinations.

That means that 7 classes already render purify basically meaningless, EVEN IF it worked properly right now.

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This was regarding putting purify on a two charge system to help keep the server ping from screwing you constantly.