6.1 Samurai thoughts after getting to try them out in-game (please revert asap)

It feels really bad with the double punch of no kaiten and the crit buffs feeling like much lower damage ceiling on our biggest hits. I have made the decision to switch to Monk, or maybe reaper. How is JP reacting?

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

It feels really bad with the double punch of no kaiten and the crit buffs feeling like much lower damage ceiling on our biggest hits. I have made the decision to switch to Monk, or maybe reaper. How is JP reacting?

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JP has been increasingly upset as time has gone by. They're about as pissed off (well, comparatively speaking) as we are about the changes now. Not for entirely the same reasons; I think a lot of the upset feeling comes from the sudden-ness of the changes coupled with what they felt was Yoshi P. seemingly ignoring/glossing over the SAM changes when reading the patch notes. But overall, yeah, they're not happy about it either. Yoshi had some interesting stuff to say in regards to some of this, taken from this thread, posts 47/48:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-anymore/page5

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Originally Posted by Quyn

If you read the latest Yoshi P translations, it paints a different picture :

"Of course there are times where I thought of just flip the table and not change anything...but still...yeah on SAM's guaranteed critical, having that will make SAM's performance jump really high but there are also parts where SAM doesn't see drastic jump as they should...and on Kaiten getting removed we did that because we want to do away having to be restricted by that move, and as for its sub stats, the influence of those stats as the patch moves on will become bigger and bigger and it'll jump the job's performance really high, more so than expected and in reverse the numbers on lesser patch will see the job not jumping as high as the job should....hmmmm...Indeed, it is true that the job's strength and weakness will depend on whether the job's amount of critical dealt and I agree the job relied on that aspect too much, and as for the strength and weakness...yeah that's what it is. I of course do understand that this is part of the fun for the job....and, as for this time, we saw specific actions determined the the composition of DPS and perhaps it leaned way too much so we let some of the weapon skill value loose and we know that if we just increase the potency of weapon skill it'll result in those skills at lower level being too strong, so we adjusted on those values as well by... please refer to the new traits added to SAM located below. So...yeah, this is the adjustments for the job we made for this patch.

And then, I am also well aware of how the critical synergy works well with jobs...and I'm definitely aware, but this is also the overall problem of FFXIV itself, and there are discussions where we should have change that itself to begin with. But we can't be doing everything simultaneously at once so please understand that we want to tackle on that gradually. We do experience cases where it's hard to adjust when a skill with and without critical can cause such a huge disparity...and so we performed this adjustment precisely we care about that so I apologize but I'd like you to please give it a try first."

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So the major tl;dr/takeaway here is that the removal of Kaiten was done to address future issues in which having Kaiten would create "restrictions" on any new skills they could add, while the have a concern about increasing stats and sub stats, particularly crit, further inflating damage and creating problems in the future.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

Part 2


"However, as for opinions, Of course we do and indeed read those properly, including those that think it's not right to over standardise jobs or comments like "you overdo yourself when it comes to our only trait or the optimization elements we have". We do indeed want to push it for as much as we could, and we are very well aware of people who understand this, as well as people who are already used to what they have now and people who told us not to do anything unnecessary. We really get that but in order for the expansion to continue and for each jobs to continue getting new actions, and whenever we think of trying to maintain the individual characteristics of each job, we found out that this "optimization" is quite tied and connected to the irregular element that was created in the past, and if we don't work to address this we can no longer build upon the existing elements and improve things further, and it'll land us in a situation where we can no longer steer ourselves forward. (edited)

Still, I of course do acknowledge that there are parts where people did not ask for, like Ninja or Samurai..and regarding Samurai's guaranteed Critical, we indeed struggled a lot on the balance adjustments due to the strong ratio fluctuation here, and we really attempted to close the variance gap for as much as we could, and we know this is done for the sake of job balance so I really appreciate if you can understand what we're trying to achieve here. You can send us feedback from there and if the voices of how a job's identity has been taken away too much then these comments will act as a reference to the direction of job balance and improvements we'll be performing in the future. So please, if you do think it matters to you, do send us a feedback regarding the matter.

Well, of course I am very well aware and understand that players will feel lonely and their displeasure will get really big when certain elements of the job they played and got used to for quite a long while now gets changed or removed, so it's not like we're purposely looking away these comments with disapproval or something, but it'll definitely be much appreciated if you can tell us which part you want us to retain or tell us more on which aspects are more favorable to you after touching on the adjustments so that we can take your comment as reference, and from there we'll know where to draw the line. I'll repeat myself that we really did all these adjustments for the sake of player's enjoyment here so I'll be thankful if you all can understand this. (The rest omitted) "

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Not sure what to say here as the man pretty much says it all. It was done for our own good and for the good of the game. Please look forward to it, or something.

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Originally Posted by Quor

It was done for our own good and for the good of the game. Please look forward to it, or something.

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"He only beats me because he loves me officer!"

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Originally Posted by Quor

So the major tl;dr/takeaway here is that the removal of Kaiten was done to address future issues in which having Kaiten would create "restrictions" on any new skills they could add, while the have a concern about increasing stats and sub stats, particularly crit, further inflating damage and creating problems in the future.



Not sure what to say here as the man pretty much says it all. It was done for our own good and for the good of the game. Please look forward to it, or something.

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This just further reinforces what many have been saying, that a kaiten removal should have been done in 7.0 where there is something to replace it rather than just subtracting from the job. Also is it really that hard to add a new skill in samurai and just put “not affected by kaiten” in the tooltip?

The stupid part is removing Shinten instead would have reduced a similar amount of APM and made your rotation MORE interesting overall, not less. The only weaponskill that loses to Kyuten is Hakaze, and that’s because there are very niche situations where you can justify spending the extra 5 Kenki to completely avoid overcap in your sequencing. You are generally rewarded for stockpiling Kenki for higher potency weaponskills, so Kaiten generally plays out more like Life Surge, but much, much more frequent, making it more intricate when there’s downtime and Third Eye interactions to account for.

I think YoshiP saying 'it'll definitely be much appreciated if you can tell us which part you want us to retain or tell us more on which aspects are more favorable to you after touching on the adjustments' is unfair because literally NO ONE was expecting SAM being changed on 6.1. Which begs the question: are they doing this to lure new SAM players who prefer dumber rotations? Because if the answer is yes then I hope the amount of new SAM players outweigh the old, quitting ones. I'm definitely not staying for this clown show

I didn't expect to hate this change as much as I do. Literally made a forum account just to contribute to the voices speaking out against it. Removing Kaiten has completely ruined both the feel and flow of the job. Please revert the change as soon as possible. Literally nobody asked for this.

Also, the spreading of the potency across the whole rotation while nerfing the big hitter actions (Setsugekka and Namikiri) feels horrendous to play. The whole point of SAM was building up the seals to use those big hit abilities, and now they are extremely lackluster. Also, saying that actions were going to become guaranteed crits and then nerfing the potency into the ground was a low move.

+1

yeah aoe finisher is gutted that makes no sense, y did its potency get nerfed to the ground w/o kaiten?

i dont think they realise that ppl might not care about actual DPS numbers as much as they do about BIG NUMBERS THAT APPEAR ON THEIR SCREEN, autocrit midare barely does more than a crit combo finisher lmao, does LESS than ur BASE midare hit pre patch

thats like i dont know, taking dmg away from ur fire spells on BLM and instead give them to ur ice spells? wtf is the point? the giving doesnt matter because u r taking away something that contirbutes greatly to the satisfaction factor

it's just bland, ur big hitters dont stand out as much any more, there is no umphh, y even play SAM at this point

It feels so empty and slow....
Like there's this awkward pause between now it just feels like something is missing.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

The stupid part is removing Shinten instead would have reduced a similar amount of APM and made your rotation MORE interesting overall, not less. The only weaponskill that loses to Kyuten is Hakaze, and that’s because there are very niche situations where you can justify spending the extra 5 Kenki to completely avoid overcap in your sequencing. You are generally rewarded for stockpiling Kenki for higher potency weaponskills, so Kaiten generally plays out more like Life Surge, but much, much more frequent, making it more intricate when there’s downtime and Third Eye interactions to account for.

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Replacing Shinten with Kaiten wouldn't reduce APM at all. It would increase it because Kaiten costs less. And I don't know if I'd like it much more than Shinten spam. Outside of the opener it would just amount to using Kaiten on Gekko and Kasha, since every combo generates exactly 20 kenki. The only other consideration would be around Meikyo usage, in which case you just wouldn't Kaiten any of those and instead pool the kenki for use in the 2 minute burst window.

The baseless comparisons to Dark Arts would have newfound legitimacy. Likewise for arguments like "Kaiten is nothing but a +potency button." Everything from its effect to its animation feels designed around use with iaijutsu, and I'm happy for that to be its niche.

Kenki is only remotely interesting because there's more than one spender to think about. There are better options to reduce button bloat than outright removing one or the other.