Machinist class is dead

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Originally Posted by Chyro

Cause its the only thing you can do right now, cause you can't make change or buffs suddenly happen. Maybe they will come in time, but until then you're just sabotaging your own enjoyment of the class by focusing on the numbers.

Are the dps-checks in the high-end content really so high that passing or failing depends on class choice? Or are there clears of each content including any of the classses? If it fails, was it really because you weren't playing a different class, or just cause some in the party weren't performing as well as they could (which would kinda be always the case, cause nobody is perfect and there's always room to improve).

What I'm trying to say is that in the foreseeable future, you can't change the devs views or the game. You can give feedback but only hope that it will be heard and brings change eventually. What you can do is change the way you view things, to not let numbers ruin your enjoyment of the class or the game. "Anything else we can do other than changing to another class?" is the question you asked and what I was responding to.

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I understand what you mean.

The answer then is "We cannot change the devs' views. So let's either forget about the numbers or change our class".

I agree. It's just sad.

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Originally Posted by EhvaTaco

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

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That would hold if brd and dnc didn't bring much more utility along with higher DPS. Given that MCH is a fairly selfish dps, it should outdps the other two physical ranged jobs. And I am not sure the changes actually closes that dmg gap in any significant way.

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Originally Posted by EhvaTaco

As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

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This is such a non-answer. MCH needs something to compete with the other two physical ranged DPS. DNC and BRD and have been wiping the floor with it since ShB. MCH itself has been in BRD’s shadow since SB, though it at least had a presence. It can’t even compete within its own role, and that is a huge problem. It simply offers nothing that BRD and DNC don’t already do. The selfish design of it doesn’t make it competitive with the two buff physical ranged because MCH’s personal damage is not enough to offset the rDPS gains of the other two.

MCH is in the grave. The damage is too low, the ping problems are too bad, and there's no utility. The class is simply dead weight compared to other ranged classes.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

MCH is in the grave. The damage is too low, the ping problems are too bad, and there's no utility. The class is simply dead weight compared to other ranged classes.

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Agreed.

Are you keeping the class or changing to a different one?

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Originally Posted by gamerseb

Agreed.

Are you keeping the class or changing to a different one?

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I just might have to buy a bow with my books even though I dislike BRD. I don't even have DNC leveled. Even double caster is probably better than including a MCH.

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Originally Posted by EhvaTaco

It is not a braindead buff. It's a change to reinforce the design around Ruby Ifrit - to have strong but slow casts. You are still expected to cast it outside of high movement windows but if you have to or want to, you can still use swift. It just won't be necessary anymore for DPS.

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Realistically, what do you need swiftcast for now? Quickcast your slipstream so it fits the buff windows and then what? MOBILITY? I'm pretty sure all Summoners don't need Swiftcast for Mobility. It'll only be used to cast a raise but the problem still remains you need Swiftcast every 2 minutes so you didn't achieve anything with that change lol. SMN got roughly a sub 1% buff.

I'll say it. It doesn't matter on the long run. What matters is they made a brain dead job ever more brain dead. SMN is still outclassed by RDM and should you pump into pure damage and ignore your raise option, you're just outclassed by BLM and RDM.

I will say this also.

Titan GCD: 330+180(oGCD). 480/2.5s = 192 potency per second. (instant)
Ifrit GCD: 510/3s = 170 potency per second. (hard cast)
Crimson Strikes/Cyclone: 430/2.5 = 172 potency per second (instant)

I ask you this friend. How is this strong and how does it make it more advantageous to hardcast it over spells that are stronger and instant cast.

It is a buff overall but you'll still use this as filler.

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Originally Posted by Chyro

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

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MCH has some gameplay issue, mine is the Queen that I complained way too much about. It's AI is inconsistent and the gameplay not fun. There's no gameplay behind the Queen, it's even more automated that FF XII or FF XIII.
Wildfire and Flamethrower needs a good rework imo.

But the topic is damage. I can't bring myself to enjoy a job when playing it is essentially griefing the team because I'm not playing a job that is straight up better.
Look, I've spent weeks to gear up my MCH expecting actually potent buff, I knew I'd be disappointed but that's a new low. I should've spent that time gearing another job.
I want to feel usefull to my team while enjoying my class.

Finally, enjoyment has nothing to do with balance. Regardless of how one enjoy the job, it doesn't excuse the lack of balance.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

MCH is in the grave. The damage is too low, the ping problems are too bad, and there's no utility. The class is simply dead weight compared to other ranged classes.

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When it's the Mathwizard that says it... Yeah it feels bad.

I wish we could hold a mass funeral for the MCH job.

Sadly, I don't think many would attend. Since no one is playing it anymore, no one else seems to care.

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Originally Posted by AnkanV

That would hold if brd and dnc didn't bring much more utility along with higher DPS. Given that MCH is a fairly selfish dps, it should outdps the other two physical ranged jobs. And I am not sure the changes actually closes that dmg gap in any significant way.

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It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.