Condensing Bard with Morphing Buttons

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

The point is having to pay attention which makes for engaging gameplay. With Bard that gameplay is having a short amount of time to react and hit a different button, with 123 combos it's remembering your place in the sequence after diverting to do something else or making sure to finish the combo first. Whether you find that gameplay fun or not is a different matter ofc, some do others do not. I'm not a fan of proc jobs but I'd much rather have either of those options over spamming one button without thought.

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LOL engaging gameplay?!

This has to be a joke post.

Having Burst Shot and Refulgent Arrow be separate buttons isn't engaging, it's just so the developers can add artificial complexity and fill up button slots.

Also, bonus LOL for the low effort Strawman "spamming one button without thought".

Yeah, this has to be a joke post.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Frankly, most of the jobs could use with some morphing buttons. There's zero reason for each job's primary combo (or in the case of some two or more combos) to take up so many spaces on our hot bars. Condensing them into one button per combo would in no way impact the game's overall difficulty, but it would allow us to organize our bars in far more player-friendly ways.

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It does, however, make the jobs feel worse for a lot of players because they're now pressing a single button instead of several. People typically prefer the feel of multiple button presses, which is why every time combo consolidation comes up, it's might with massive vitriol. In fact, Summoner is precisely why people hate the idea. While it wouldn't change anything to space out SMN's buttons, it'd feel less spamm-y if they weren't all consolidated together.

Now if combo consolidation actually led to new abilities or even third string combos being added, I'd be more open to the change. If it's simply going to delete six buttons on Dragoon and replace them with nothing. I'd rather keep the combos as they are now instead of spamming 1222111112. I'd be even worse on tanks. Warrior's would be 111111 with the occasional 2. Could ask the Healers how they like that gameplay...

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

LOL engaging gameplay?!

This has to be a joke post.

Having Burst Shot and Refulgent Arrow be separate buttons isn't engaging, it's just so the developers can add artificial complexity and fill up button slots.

Also, bonus LOL for the low effort Strawman "spamming one button without thought".

Yeah, this has to be a joke post.

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It makes you pay attention (assuming you care about playing well), that's basically the definition of engaging. I know it's one of those buzzwords people use differently all the time but that's what it means. If you put Burst and Refulgent on the same button you'd be spamming that one button a lot more. What's so hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

It makes you pay attention (assuming you care about playing well), that's basically the definition of engaging. I know it's one of those buzzwords people use differently all the time but that's what it means. If you put Burst and Refulgent on the same button you'd be spamming that one button a lot more. What's so hard to understand?

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That is not the definition of engaging.

Engaging has a recognized definition and that is not it.

It seems appropriate that your response and the one above yours are basically "I dont want to be pressing the same button all the time, just most of the time"

I guess pressing a different button every so often gives people illusion of "engaging gameplay" even though, functionally, pressing one for both is the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

That is not the definition of engaging.

Engaging has a recognized definition and that is not it.

It seems appropriate that your response and the one above yours are basically "I dont want to be pressing the same button all the time, just most of the time"

I guess pressing a different button every so often gives people illusion of "engaging gameplay" even though, functionally, pressing one for both is the same thing.

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Arguing about a word while ignoring the point is silly if you ask me but if you want to go that route: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engage

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5a : to hold the attention of : ENGROSS
her work engages her completely

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And yes pressing a different button every so often is better than a single button. Example: https://www.fflogs.com/reports/N1hrn...casts&source=7

In that log the Bard uses a total of 174 weaponskills of which 100 are Burst Shot and 45 are Refulgent Arrow. That works out to about 57% of their gcds being one ability and about 26% being another. If those abilities were to be combined into one you're looking at about 83% of all gcds being one ability, not to mention it would remove the entire thought process of checking to see if Refulgent procced before using Burst Shot which is actually kind of a big deal, it's not difficult but it requires a little effort on the player's part almost every gcd. That required effort is what makes the job engaging, otherwise you wouldn't even need to look at the screen.

Your gcds if Burst and Refulgent were combined would literally be refreshing dots every ~45s, hitting Apex every minute and mindlessly spamming one ability otherwise because there's literally nothing else to think about (ogcds aside because they exist in both examples). That doesn't sound fun to me. But some people find playing new SMN with 1 macro fun so what do I know.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

not to mention it would remove the entire thought process of checking to see if Refulgent procced before using Burst Shot which is actually kind of a big deal, it's not difficult but it requires a little effort on the player's part almost every gcd. That required effort is what makes the job engaging

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This part right here is all I need to see.

If you think checking to see if Refulgent Arrow is lit up or not requires thought or any bit of effort then I don't know what to say except LOL.

Instead of arguing semantics with me you should be angry at Square Enix for letting the class degrade to such a point.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Frankly, most of the jobs could use with some morphing buttons. There's zero reason for each job's primary combo (or in the case of some two or more combos) to take up so many spaces on our hot bars. Condensing them into one button per combo would in no way impact the game's overall difficulty, but it would allow us to organize our bars in far more player-friendly ways.

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I agree... Most jobs do a 1, 2, 3 combo and morphing them into 1 would save a lot of space (especially for controller users that have 8 primary abilities they can set)

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

This part right here is all I need to see.

If you think checking to see if Refulgent Arrow is lit up or not requires thought or any bit of effort then I don't know what to say except LOL.

Instead of arguing semantics with me you should be angry at Square Enix for letting the class degrade to such a point.

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Riiiight because looking at information, interpreting it and deciding on an action based upon it is just a thing that happens automatically through some kind of psychic instinct and doesn't involve using your eyes or brain at all. lol.

Bard isn't that bad, on the official and totally not biased at all scale of fun I'd rate it a solid "Eh". Tbh if there were more Bloodletters during Mage's Ballad it could easily be upgraded to "Yes, I would absolutely play this job over grinding out yet another relic weapon for a job I rarely play".

In order to make button consolidation not a no-brainer, each step of a combo should do something a little different such that being unable to choose which to use is technically a restriction, even if you'd use them in order 99% of the time.

An example: Gunbreaker 1-2-3 goes 1. damage, 2. damage + selfheal/shield, 3. damage + resource generation. Normally you'd loop through them in order, but if for some reason you wanted to maximize your own durability (say the healer is dead and you need to live a little longer to let the DPS finish the boss) you might want the option to do 1-2-1-2-1-2,

Bard's generic attack and high damage proc can sort of justify being on different buttons because if you had to push two bombs away before returning to focus on the boss, you might want to Heavy Shot both bombs and then Straight Shot the boss instead of wasting your proc on a target whose health doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Xander_Diabolos

I agree... Most jobs do a 1, 2, 3 combo and morphing them into 1 would save a lot of space (especially for controller users that have 8 primary abilities they can set)

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Unfortunately, I don't see this ever happening.

If you look at an extreme example like Dragoon the problem is obvious.

If you consolidate the buttons for Dragoon's 2 single target combos, AoE combo and Jump combo you would consolidate 12 buttons down to 4.

Would be a bad look for the game if you condensed a Job down to less than 20 buttons.