Dark Knights are an absolute joke and I'm tired of pretending they're not

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Oh look, a joker who thinks high DPS = well built job. The DPS means nothing if it's taking away from the healers who are having to throw more your way. DRK struggles harder than the other tanks in dungeon pulls, but excels when it comes to bosses. The problem here is the pulls, and the lack of sustain during them. I get a subpar healer as a PLD/GNB/WAR I can still push through. I get the same subpar healer on a DRK and I'm screwed, period. That's a fault of the job design.

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100% agree with everything you said except "That's a fault of the job design"

It's the fault of the healer.

So many healers complaining they are bored and have nothing to do, yet here we are, talking about DRK's being weak and dying all the time again. Doesn't add up.

If your healer is no good, you will struggle. As it should be. Sounds like good game design to me.

And I don't want to hear "what about WAR..." that is WAR'S strength, self sustain, in the same way a DRK can prevent a healer hitting the floor from an incoming mechanic in high end content (or any boss for that matter) every 15 seconds, that's it's strength. Variety is a good thing!

Like I said, stick with it, nail your CD rotation and you won't be having any issues unless you have abysmal healing backing you up, which does happen from time to time. But that doesn't mean the fault is with DRK.

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Originally Posted by DarkDredgen

And I don't want to hear "what about WAR..." that is WAR'S strength, self sustain, in the same way a DRK can prevent a healer hitting the floor from an incoming mechanic in high end content (or any boss for that matter) every 15 seconds, that's it's strength. Variety is a good thing!

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Just a reminder for anyone else that Warrior can actually shield a healer in danger for about 25% of their maximum health (Shake + BW) while also giving them healing for about 50+% (1900 healing potency - Shake + BW).

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Originally Posted by DarkDredgen

If your healer is no good, you will struggle. As it should be. Sounds like good game design to me.

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It would be...if this was for all tanks across the board. Except it's not, DRK is the only tank who suffers with this. So either all the tanks should get nerfed to where this is the standard (the devs have stated they hate nerfing), or DRK should be brought up to the other tanks level.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Just a reminder for anyone else that Warrior can actually shield a healer in danger for about 25% of their maximum health (Shake + BW) while also giving them healing for about 50+% (1900 healing potency - Shake + BW).

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Every 15 seconds, instantly, at the push of a button?

How many heals you getting off with BW once you see that cast bar charging up you reckon?

Hardly comparable is it.

Look, I don't care. I tried. Il be over here not dying in dungeons as a DRK...you guys keep on doing..whatever it is you're doing.

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Originally Posted by DarkDredgen

How many heals you getting off with BW once you see that cast bar charging up you reckon?

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More than a Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Its hard being the highest dps tank I'm sure.

If no healer can keep you up on pulls, maybe the problem isn't the class. Its your gear and or skill with the class.

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Outside of the effectiveness of DRK in dungeons (personally haven't issues although I do miss having any heal other than AD sometimes) there are a ton of other issues with DRK, and I wish its DPS would stopped being used as an excuse to dismiss complaints about its gameplay.

Yeah, a 400 potency shield is peanuts and incomparable to what a DRK can do. Shielding a healer for 25% is a lot stronger in practice than shielding them for 400 potency and healing them over the course of 4 GCDs.

Doesn't really change anything about how poorly designed DRK is for dungeons though.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Yeah, a 400 potency shield is peanuts and incomparable to what a DRK can do. Shielding a healer for 25% is a lot stronger in practice than shielding them for 400 potency and healing them over the course of 4 GCDs.

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On a i580 healer (me), a 25% shield is 11,300.

From an i580 tank (also me), a 400 shield is ~5,600. If we discount Shake it off (A 15% shield - so ~6k on a healer), then after one singular attack, which will also heal for about 5,600, you have provided as much HP to the healer as a 25% max hp shield does.

So even if we were maximizing the damage reduction you can give (within 4s, so only two gcds), you are providing about 50% more than TBN does to the healer, with two more gcds to go, with 19% reduction on top of it, that requires Oblation and Reprisal to match from the Dark Knight.

But sure, it's incomparable.

Oh and you're also still healing yourself while doing this.

I don't have any problem tbh. Drk is lvl 88 for me, others are 90. The only "problem" I have is that I can't solo kill a boss on drk like I can a warrior. Idk, just because drk is harder and warriors is 'Fisher Price babys first tank' doesn't really mean that drk is bad to me. It just means warrior is far to easy.

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Originally Posted by Ricola

I don't have any problem tbh. Drk is lvl 88 for me, others are 90. The only "problem" I have is that I can't solo kill a boss on drk like I can a warrior. Idk, just because drk is harder and warriors is 'Fisher Price babys first tank' doesn't really mean that drk is bad to me. It just means warrior is far to easy.

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Pretty much this. DRK is harder to heal than WAR. /shrug All that means is I need to adjust accordingly when I have a DRK tank.

Imo DRK's major problem is that it... is very clunky in some parts and Living Dead is still a nightmare. I got it to 80 last expansion hoping for some changes, I'm not touching it until it gets something.