Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Depends on your perspective, is Meteion winning really such a bad thing? Is there any point to saving a planet that has seen countless slaughters and evils from different species living there and will continue to do that even after this threat has been dealt with? Is it really worth it?

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Yes because she doesn't have the right to tell us if we should live or die. Why should some random person die because some jerk somewhere else did something evil?

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Depends on your perspective, is Meteion winning really such a bad thing? Is there any point to saving a planet that has seen countless slaughters and evils from different species living there and will continue to do that even after this threat has been dealt with? Is it really worth it?

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Yes, that is actually the moral question at a point. Well, not the way you put it, but rather 'is it right to sunder the planet to fight Meteion rather than let that planet's inhabitants drive themselves to death'. Remember that the Sundering was equal parts about making sure the planet could fight Meteion as it was ensuring that the Ancients would stop the cycle of sacrifices that had now gone from 'sacrificing the Ancients willingly' to 'sacrificing the life of the planet unwillingly'.

Essentially, is it better to live by someone else's standards, or to die by your own? Amaurot was going down the road to a tragic end regardless of Meteion.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Yes, that is actually the moral question at a point. Well, not the way you put it, but rather 'is it right to sunder the planet to fight Meteion rather than let that planet's inhabitants drive themselves to death'. Remember that the Sundering was equal parts about making sure the planet could fight Meteion as it was ensuring that the Ancients would stop the cycle of sacrifices that had now gone from 'sacrificing the Ancients willingly' to 'sacrificing the life of the planet unwillingly'.

Essentially, is it better to live by someone else's standards, or to die by your own? Amaurot was going down the road to a tragic end regardless of Meteion.

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Yeah but Meteion said it herself, all the civilisations she found destroyed themselves. "Hope" is a little cheesy in the face of natural evolution and the Fermi Paradox, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Yeah but Meteion said it herself, all the civilisations she found destroyed themselves. "Hope" is a little cheesy in the face of natural evolution and the Fermi Paradox, don't you think?

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did you miss the part where they stated that meteion herself doomed several civilizations by projecting her doomer mentality onto their people? annihilation was hardly the inevitable path for every single world she saw, and even for all ther travels, she probably still didn't see literally everything there was to the universe

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Yeah but Meteion said it herself, all the civilisations she found destroyed themselves. "Hope" is a little cheesy in the face of natural evolution and the Fermi Paradox, don't you think?

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Then I'm going to ask you a very important question, a personal one. If nothing matters, and your post is basically you coming across as saying as such...why do you still exist? Why do you live? What are you living for? Why are you going about your day to day when in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter? It's a very philosophical and personal question to where everybody has a different answer for, one the game is pointing out. And in the end, the game essentially gives an answer in simple terms.

"Your life is your own to make, nobody else's. Find your own path."

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Yeah but Meteion said it herself, all the civilisations she found destroyed themselves. "Hope" is a little cheesy in the face of natural evolution and the Fermi Paradox, don't you think?

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So a society where the people are mostly content should be destroyed because they'll destroy themselves in the future? What about the people who exist then who don't want to die? People suffer and die in the future, thus they should never be born at all? Because that was literally Meteion's argument.

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Originally Posted by andrealfus

did you miss the part where they stated that meteion herself doomed several civilizations by projecting her doomer mentality onto their people? annihilation was hardly the inevitable path for every single world she saw, and even for all ther travels, she probably still didn't see literally everything there was to the universe

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True but it depends on perspective... in terms of societal growth, the death knell of most civilisations that have reached a certain level is usually stagnation and then decline, look at Greece, Rome, Egypt... they were once the greatest civilisations on earth and now no more then dusty ruins.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Depends on your perspective, is Meteion winning really such a bad thing? Is there any point to saving a planet that has seen countless slaughters and evils from different species living there and will continue to do that even after this threat has been dealt with? Is it really worth it?

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First off if Meteoin won there is no game... it wasn't just our star she was going to destroy, it was everything... that was even said by her as we were trying to beat her at the end. Second of all her basis of needing to destroy everything in the first place was built what she witnessed on other places that wasn't etherias... Etherias hadn't done any of those things and had the final days inflicted before we could even know what would happen there.. zodiark was the response to final days and hydelan was the response to ensuring no one else got sacrificed zodiark.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

[[Warning: Major spoilers for Endwalker, please don't read as I don't want to spoil the story for anyone.

So it really bothers me that Square Enix played it rather "safe" with this story. I came into the story hoping that Hydaelyn was actually going to be the villain of the story all along and we have been doing her bidding because we were "tempered" to her. I think they really did hint at this in Shadowbringers.

But no, she's a good girl all along and I really feel let down with this, feeling Square went for the "safe" option narratively. I think it really could have made this game a masterpiece in the vein of FF7 or FFIX if Hydaelyn had been evil, in an "Overprotective Helicopter Parent" sort of way and we had been forced to serve her the whole way through the game in a very "meta" sort of way as this is an MMO.

I certainly felt like that as I met plenty of characters I was doing stuff for that I simply did not care about (Tataru for example) and I felt the limited narrative choices in the story were hinting that we were under Hydaelyn's control and that's why Ifrit could not temper us.

I kind of feel a bit disappointed with this rather safe story. Its NOT badly told, infact I commend its writing but it just feels a little generic, especially with Metion just turning up from nowhere to be the "big bad".

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I don't think saying they chose to go the "safe" route by doing what they did with the story.. The more I've seen of this part of Endwalker I'd argue they had most of the story written and decided before it got too far.. so I'm not sure how much they honestly could have changed. Also, considering their was always a camp of hate Hydelen since before Shadowbringers (and shadowbringers really brought the crowd more traction) so saying by doing that wouldn't be a "safe" story isnt something I'd agree with either.

Also, Metion being the big bad, while not fully visible from the start, isn't entirely "out of left field"... it's a twist on final fantasy after years in a way (which endwalker has very strong ties and references too), but she was connected too and was created by Fandieal who actually was revealed to also be Amon and thus have very strong ties to several parts of final fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Wiccan026

I don't think saying they chose to go the "safe" route by doing what they did with the story.. The more I've seen of this part of Endwalker I'd argue they had most of the story written and decided before it got too far.. so I'm not sure how much they honestly could have changed. Also, considering their was always a camp of hate Hydelen since before Shadowbringers (and shadowbringers really brought the crowd more traction) so saying by doing that wouldn't be a "safe" story isnt something I'd agree with either.

Also, Metion being the big bad, while not fully visible from the start, isn't entirely "out of left field"... it's a twist on final fantasy after years in a way (which endwalker has very strong ties and references too), but she was connected too and was created by Fandieal who actually was revealed to also be Amon and thus have very strong ties to several parts of final fantasy.

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I don't even feel Meteion was the big bad. She was mostly just a vessel for what we've truly been fighting against-- the suffering and despair that we face in every day life, looking for a glimmer of hope and happiness. She just happened to be a strong enough empath to contain the emotions of all those dead worlds, their fear, hated and sorrow.

The Ancients biggest problem is that they really were kinda heading in the same direction as some of those other planets. They lacked empathy for living beings, seeing life as fairly meaningless outside of their own, willing to destroy anything they felt didn't benefit the star. They had no way to really deal with the depression that Hermes was feeling and when crap hit the fan, so to speak, they couldn't deal with the Final Days or be content with Zodiark protecting them from the end or trying to find a way to stop it. They were instead obsessed with getting back the world they had and couldn't deal with any form of suffering. Even if Venat told them the truth, I doubt they'd actually try to even find a way to move forward to stop Meteion and instead would have continued down that path.