(Spoilers) Why are dungeons so under-tuned when...

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

Harsh... While I agree that at a certain point players need to stop expecting everything to be easy mode, it is not the fault of players that SE continues to create this expectation and provides little by way of tools or content that teaches players how to "Git Gud".

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Or actively stimies learning tools, as if what little (barebone) support they offer is wholly sufficient...

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Originally Posted by Anhra

A good example for this, is the changes they did to the Aurum Vale Coincounter.

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I actually think this is a horrible example for this. While I would agree that the change wasn't needed to Coincounter, he was the only dungeon boss in the game(I think) that didn't have telegraphs. The only other places I've seen this have been in raids where you have to pay attention to what the giant boss of doom is doing to know where to dodge. It makes complete sense that they would go back and give Coincounter telegraphs since it's a lowbie dungeon and those players will never use that mechanic again until high level content or optional raids.

It just flat out didn't make sense with the rest of the design philosophy around it so they "corrected" the out of place one. To me that change wasn't about making it easier but about making it follow with the rest of the game's logic. In another example, say...Dark Souls. One thing you'd never find is if all the sudden halfway through the game you ran into a boss that required you to solve puzzles to defeat him. Would that work in other games? Quite possibly. But in Dark Souls? No way in hell. It would be MASSIVELY panned because it's a complete deviation from how the rest of the game works.

TLDR: They fixed something they should have fixed years ago. I think using it as an example of the devs dumbing down the game is a stretch.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

I actually think this is a horrible example for this. While I would agree that the change wasn't needed to Coincounter, he was the only dungeon boss in the game(I think) that didn't have telegraphs.

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The chimera is another example with "Ram / Dragon casts". Pretty much any old boss has no tankbuster-telegraphs. And there are a bunch of other examples of dungeon-bosses with some mechanics or no telegraphs you need to get used to.
SE added with each expansion more and more of them to the new fights. Imo any tankbuster has one and the multistack animation is new and way too much used already. Any primal fights has it and if 1 healer dies before or overall 3 ppl missing, gogo wipe.

So far the fights got way easier over the expansions, which is a killer for the learning curve. And instead of having some sort of growing, a challenge, the core challenge is to beg that 8 ppl are alive for the stackmarks. That´s it.

Without it... i could beat any current dungeon / primal fight solo on a tank. It´ll only need some time.

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

Harsh... While I agree that at a certain point players need to stop expecting everything to be easy mode, it is not the fault of players that SE continues to create this expectation and provides little by way of tools or content that teaches players how to "Git Gud".

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Yeah might be harsh but reality. It´s no offense against the person above. That the learning curve is a joke in this game and even more stuff is getting ridiculously easy over the expansions is a no-go. I don´t get what SE is really thinking about this and that ppl continuosly wipe to a standard primal shows that it´s the wrong way. The "easy button on MSQ" or stuff like echo-buffs do play a major role with this issue as much as telegraphs for everything or endless castbars.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Without it... i could beat any current dungeon / primal fight solo on a tank. It´ll only need some time.

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Look out, we got a badass over here.

The difficulty curve in XIV is fine. Go play dark souls or something for your leet overly punishing content.

Meanwhile, I can't even get past the 1st boss in Smileton. The mechanics have been explained to me, they sound doable, I at least _think_ I'm doing every step along the way correctly - & I die regardless, every time. So now I'm just blocked on unlocking Expert roulette.

Maybe they could do difficulty tiers like with trials, but 'more difficult' for all when I'm already sitting here locked out of game progression is a bitter pill to see someone trying to convince me to take.

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

Meanwhile, I can't even get past the 1st boss in Smileton. The mechanics have been explained to me, they sound doable, I at least _think_ I'm doing every step along the way correctly - & I die regardless, every time. So now I'm just blocked on unlocking Expert roulette.

Maybe they could do difficulty tiers like with trials, but 'more difficult' for all when I'm already sitting here locked out of game progression is a bitter pill to see someone trying to convince me to take.

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How can you stuck there? Do you play with Thancred and Co. only? I can´t believe that not any group was able to clear it with yourself. Maybe try to play with others and learn from them? You actually lock out yourself by not using the multiplayer in a MMORPG.

If they come with difficulty tiers, they need to brind better loot on the higher ones aka a mount or something like you´ve in each 4th savage fight. But at this point dozens of ppl will start to complain "I can´t beat it, but i want, please nerf!"

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Look out, we got a badass over here.

The difficulty curve in XIV is fine. Go play dark souls or something for your leet overly punishing content.

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Yes i´m a badass who´s able to press the given buttons on tanks meanwhile playing 123. Just because you aren´t able to do the same doesn´t mean that the game is well balanced with its difficulty or learning curve. It just means you´re not a good player. :)

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

How can you stuck there? Do you play with Thancred and Co. only? I can´t believe that not any group was able to clear it with yourself. Maybe try to play with others and learn from them? You actually lock out yourself by not using the multiplayer in a MMORPG.

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I did go with a group, because I can't clear a dungeon w/ the NPCs since they won't rezz me (I always die).

The group explained the mechanics. Faces. Alternate colors. Watch the tethers. Avoid bad ground (duh).

And I still died, died, died, died, died. Even as it seemed, from my screen, that I was doing everything as instructed.

Heck, just the bad ground - 1st push I literally lined myself up OUT of one, got pushed into one. 'OK,' I thought, 'the push is strong enough that I need to stand IN one to get pushed OUT of it! I'll do that next time!'

Next time, stand IN bad... & get pushed into next bad. Instadeath again. :/

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Yes i´m a badass who´s able to press the given buttons on tanks meanwhile playing 123. Just because you aren´t able to do the same doesn´t mean that the game is well balanced with its difficulty or learning curve. It just means you´re not a good player. :)

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Although this wasn't directed toward my response, a point here:

You're suggesting that the entire game be geared for your skill level. That will make it completely unplayable for some (certainly for me).

Why not instead suggest, as I have, tiers that can accommodate multiple skill levels? This is not only a better business approach (why should they turn away paying lower-ability customers), but is also the simply the _nicer_ approach - something for everyone instead of only one group getting what they want.

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

I did go with a group, because I can't clear a dungeon w/ the NPCs since they won't rezz me (I always die).

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Sounds like you need to get a better eye for surroundings and other stuff. So far the casttimes and animations are long enough.

For the given fight, don´t know what´s gonna explained, but it´s seriously just staying on red or blue. What´s sometimes happen is that the boss swap the stonefaces, but that´s even a cast you can see.
For that knockback, it´s always 1 line. Otherwise you can stay in the correct line and use your antiknockback-skill. Stop doing DPS and just concentrate on mechanics to get used too. Pretty much everything in this game repeats dozens of times, so once you got used to something, you can clear everything beyond.

(You could even follow another person permanently. You probably won´t die then, but you don´t learn then too.)

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

Although this wasn't directed toward my response, a point here:

You're suggesting that the entire game be geared for your skill level. That will make it completely unplayable for some (certainly for me).

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I´ve never said that i want the complete game on my skill level, it´s just what ppl claim who don´t read properly.

I´ve stated more than one time that it´s not about difficulty only. It´s more about "not always the same". We got re-used stuff over and over again from each expansion, a beautiful but useless overworld and other stuff. Dungeons are just wall to wall pulls meanwhile the loot and adds have become completely irrelevant. Bosses can be solo´d and in stuff like savage the whole challenge is that 8 from 8 persons stay on the correct spot. And and and...

We just don´t get any new or challenging stuff. The game doesn´t even has a decent learning curve. A bunch of players are just getting carried through the content meanwhile the others are bored as hell. And instead of giving us a decent learning curve, SE gave us an "easier button" and many dumbdowns on classes.

I would be a fan of normal and hardcore dungeons, even with 5 difficulty tiers and special mechanics or so. But as i said, ppl has already been like "No, i don´t want to spend more than 10 minutes into a dungeon" or "No, i can´t complete it, it´s too hard, i can´t get the mount/pet there. So SE goes the lazy way and don´t put much efford into anything. Visually yes, but gameplay-wise not so much.

(This guy above seems to be my personal forum-stalker anyway. He´s writing the same sentence with other words on anything, so far just ignore it. He has seriously no clue.)

FFXIV clearly isn't for you.