Reset time with xpansion. Lets deal with the cheating finally.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

ff 14 has a modding community? Lol?

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Jepp. The modding community is HUGE! And i mean, really huge. But most mods replace things in the game client like hair styles, faces, clothes etc. This changes are only visible locally. And the mods are not comparable to addons in other games.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

Auto callouts, markings etc. destroyed dungeons and raids in WoW. Instead of playing the game, knowing the mechanics you just do what an addon yells at you. Using such things has devastating effects, and it's a HUGE advantage over other players.
It went so far that some fights now rely on you having the addon, and you cannot tell something is happening without the addon. This is a piss poor design and I support the complete ban of all these things.

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So, first off, this isn't wow.

And I don't mean that as dismissively as it might sound at first. FF14's fight design is different. A lot of the more intricate mechanics can't be automated - even if you have an addon giving you a timeline of the fight and a callout that "hey this mechanic is happening now!", you have to coordinate with your team to solve it and the addon can't tell you exactly what to do. A lot of the time it can't even give you a vague idea of what to do, other than "Pay attention cause the thing is happening".

But, regardless, your support doesn't matter - It's already "banned"/forbidden.

buuuut SE's stance on enforcement is "don't ask don't tell" and they don't want to change the status quo, so some people will quietly use them. But also plenty of people don't use them. Everyone on console. PC players that can't be bothered/rely on raid leader callouts/think it cheapens the game, etc etc

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So, first off, this isn't wow.

And I don't mean that as dismissively as it might sound at first. FF14's fight design is different. A lot of the more intricate mechanics can't be automated - even if you have an addon giving you a timeline of the fight and a callout that "hey this mechanic is happening now!", you have to coordinate with your team to solve it and the addon can't tell you exactly what to do. A lot of the time it can't even give you a vague idea of what to do, other than "Pay attention cause the thing is happening".

But, regardless, your support doesn't matter - It's already "banned"/forbidden.

buuuut SE's stance on enforcement is "don't ask don't tell" and they don't want to change the status quo, so some people will quietly use them. But also plenty of people don't use them. Everyone on console. PC players that can't be bothered/rely on raid leader callouts/think it cheapens the game, etc etc

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Okay, you can't play the game without third party software telling you what to do, good, now we know.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

Okay, you can't play the game without third party software telling you what to do, good, now we know.

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Going for the personal attacks huh?

I do just fine without it, as do many others. And there are many that can't raid without someone calling it out in discord. One might choose to be elitist and gatekeepy - some people do scorn others' needs for callouts, be they human or not, but it doesn't change the realities of how people play.

For me personally, I just still don't get why people get bent out of shape for it. "Oh no! Someone got told a mechanic is coming!" Yeah it'd be different if there were cheats that added DPS or allowed invulnerability or literally moved your character for you, but... callouts are such a frivolous thing to get upset over, lol

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

Auto callouts, markings etc. destroyed dungeons and raids in WoW. Instead of playing the game, knowing the mechanics you just do what an addon yells at you. Using such things has devastating effects, and it's a HUGE advantage over other players.

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While I agree that automarkers and callouts are going too far (and even the devs agree, hence removing the ability to place waymarks in combat), it's sadly much worse than addons. Bots are used to run dungeons and leveling instances, automate rotations and assist with avoiding mechanics. They don't hide it, they have public forums or discords where they talk about it. Apparently they have been used even in high end content, such as Savage. It's also a reason for things like provoke spamming tanks in alliance who don't turn the boss or listen, their tank bot is programmed to provoke whenever they aren't on top of the aggro table. Gathering and craft bots too are common too among regular players and not just RMT sellers.

There is a serious botting issue that's worse than many realize and will only continue to develop as more people realize SE have no power over it.

If you catch anyone using mods then turn them in and have there accounts banned. There the ones that wreck online games for everyone else. SE really needs to come down hard on them. Maybe even hit them with fines for using cheats.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

ff 14 has a modding community? Lol? Am I that out of touch? I was just tanking a dungeon just now that had 3 people vanish right in front of me to the final boss. I had to run there and they had already engaged the boss by the time I ran to the entrance. Just watching teleport cheaters just now really frustrates me.

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Very much.

Also, you might be experiencing really bad packet loses and what you saw on your screen could have just been lag on your behalf. It happens occasionally to some of my FC members in dungeons and raids.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well if people are teleporting, SE can definitely detect that and they'll get the banhammer in time.

The last time people cheated in a raid setting, waaaaay back in second coil, they got the banhammer too. Unless you mean like camera/zoom out mods, well, that's a bit less detectable but I'm also not particular concerned by what little advantage that gives people. Or the automatic waymarks, but that was patched out. And then... I guess there's still automatic overhead markers. But, again, that's pretty banal as far as advantage goes. It's not like people can cheat to add 1000 or 10000 to their DPS, that'd be a much bigger deal since it'd break down the fundamentals of the game.

While I wouldn't call SE's mostly-laissez-faire approach ideal, I also think people get way too bent out of shape over minor things like auto callouts or even just that the DPS meter exists.

My ideal would be if SE provided an official modding API, as that would provide a clearer line on "this is acceptable" and "this is not acceptable", but they dropped all plans for mod support long ago and per their recent liveletter, well, they acknowledge that basically "what constitutes unacceptable third party app use" is a conversation that would never end so use anything at your own risk.

So we're stuck with this awkward "don't ask don't tell" situation where you can parse, graphically mod the game, have auto callouts, etc as long as you don't tell anyone, but if you do anything that sends data to the server - even if it seems as innocuous as markers - you're taking a much bigger risk.

It's not ideal, but time and again it comes up and this is what we're left with.

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You do realize there are automated rotations, automated markers that help guide you to mechanics, and nonteleporting cheats in the game as well. And that is not even imo the worst. It's the screwed-up housing system being bot bought up and the economy of the server ruined. SE already ignores the party bots people make in the other FF online game and I am not talking about trusts. You can see entire bot groups set up in sync to play it 24/7. Its as bad here but in every area now.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

While I agree that automarkers and callouts are going too far (and even the devs agree, hence removing the ability to place waymarks in combat), it's sadly much worse than addons. Bots are used to run dungeons and leveling instances, automate rotations and assist with avoiding mechanics. They don't hide it, they have public forums or discords where they talk about it. Apparently they have been used even in high end content, such as Savage. It's also a reason for things like provoke spamming tanks in alliance who don't turn the boss or listen, their tank bot is programmed to provoke whenever they aren't on top of the aggro table. Gathering and craft bots too are common too among regular players and not just RMT sellers.

There is a serious botting issue that's worse than many realize and will only continue to develop as more people realize SE have no power over it.

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Indeed and this supports my claim even further. If you can automate the whole process, making an addon that tells your what and when to do it is the same, just easier.
That's why I consider this claim invalid and nothing more than a third party software user defending it so they can keep using it:

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

FF14's fight design is different. A lot of the more intricate mechanics can't be automated - even if you have an addon giving you a timeline of the fight and a callout that "hey this mechanic is happening now!", you have to coordinate with your team to solve it and the addon can't tell you exactly what to do. A lot of the time it can't even give you a vague idea of what to do, other than "Pay attention cause the thing is happening".

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That is possible but not likely. I was able to use my own commands without fail and they just poofed away. Was no delay in my casting. If teleport cheating can easily be detected then these are throw-away accounts most likely that will be replaced by more bots later.