Controversioal Changes to Monk

If anyone thnks positionals are equal to casting, then you have a warped viewpoint and seriously can't back up your point. Positionals are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a melee class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

If anyone thnks positionals are equal to casting, then you have a warped viewpoint and seriously can't back up your point. Positionals are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a melee class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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I know I’m assertive on my hot takes, but this is just condescending. Replace positionals with the word “RNG (DNC)” “Procs (RDM)” “Cast bars (BLM)” “Dots (SMN/BRD)” “Rotation (MCH)” it’s not MNK Stand out trait true and a valid argument could’ve been made to say the lack their of, but here we are instead...

I don’t think it’s “sad” I think it’s fine, positionals aren’t complex, no one ever said anything about skillful gamers, this is slowly turning into a You problem in all honesty. Play other jobs, I can assure you MNK won’t be better without them, standing still spamming 1-2-3 isn’t fun and it would be a lesser DRG, unless you take issue with their positionals too.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I know I’m assertive on my hot takes, but this is just condescending. Replace positionals with the word “RNG (DNC)” “Procs (RDM)” “Cast bars (BLM)” “Dots (SMN/BRD)” “Rotation (MCH)” it’s not MNK Stand out trait true and a valid argument could’ve been made to say the lack their of, but here we are instead...

I don’t think it’s “sad” I think it’s fine, positionals aren’t complex, no one ever said anything about skillful gamers, this is slowly turning into a You problem in all honesty. Play other jobs, I can assure you MNK won’t be better without them, standing still spamming 1-2-3 isn’t fun and it would be a lesser DRG, unless you take issue with their positionals too.

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I have no problem at all.
Being forced to move a yalm to the left or right for 30 potency is hardly engaging gameplay. I do play Bozja and can honestly say I am happy without them and do not miss them in the slightest. RNG, Procs, Dots and casts can all be found in other MMOs, but you know what you struggle to find in the abundance that FF has? Positionals... Everyone gets it, even square are understanding now that they are not actually an engaging mechanic at all. It's like a lot of players that post on the forums have never played another MMO and have no idea how a melee can actually be fun without positionals, its crazy lol.

I mean no offence by that, but honestly find it astonishing how players here are so diehard over moving left and right, something you can do freely anyway. When I play other MMORPGS, I move around like a madman, that is my jigg. Hate to be forced to do it though, and when some absolute mongo is insistent on spinning the boss, the last thing I want to hear is "The content doesn't matter, just take the dps loss". That one argument you hear so much is an admition of a failed mechanic.

Just because YOU don't find it engaging, doesn't mean others don't. Knowing fight mechanics is key to doing well with positionals, the foresight of knowing a boss is going to do this, so I should position myself here to maximise uptime. The boss is facing away from the tank for a mechanic, how can I reposition myself to account for the boss turning back to move as little as possible etc.

Doing positionals is more than just moving a little left and a little right. The serious melee players will be thinking ahead, which sounds alot like another job that we have...oh yes, Black Mage. Black Mage relies heavily on standing still and having forethought into what they do and how they place themselves, it is the same for melee.

Also, just because other MMOs don't have positionals, doesn't mean they are automatically bad. Granted, I haven't played other MMOs, however, how many of them actually had positionals and later removed them? From my limited knowledge, it is zero, so it really isn't a fair comparison.

I like monk being positional heavy and I would hate to see it removed since it's always been a core part of the job and it fits the fantasy of monks being agile and maneuverable fighters.

That being said, the idea that ALL melee jobs MUST have positionals in order to be satisfying is really weird to me. As others have pointed out, melee classes in other MMOs have often had plenty of depth without any positional requirements whatsoever. The need to maintain melee uptime and perform mechanics while staying within a hair's breadth of the boss is still a unique challenge for melee that sets them apart from other roles, even with 0 positionals. There is also really no reason that melee jobs can't have more randomized procs or other features that would add a higher level of complexity to their rotation, either in place of positionals or in conjunction with them.

I would enjoy seeing at least 1 melee job without positionals in the future, just to have it as an option for the players who want it. Yes True North would be an irrelevant role action for that job, but Lucid Dreaming is already irrelevant for BLM outside of niche cases. I think role actions should exist solely to fill a need for the jobs that need them, rather than forcing all jobs of a certain role to play in the same way.

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Originally Posted by Ardour

I like monk being positional heavy and I would hate to see it removed since it's always been a core part of the job and it fits the fantasy of monks being agile and maneuverable fighters.

That being said, the idea that ALL melee jobs MUST have positionals in order to be satisfying is really weird to me. As others have pointed out, melee classes in other MMOs have often had plenty of depth without any positional requirements whatsoever. The need to maintain melee uptime and perform mechanics while staying within a hair's breadth of the boss is still a unique challenge for melee that sets them apart from other roles, even with 0 positionals. There is also really no reason that melee jobs can't have more randomized procs or other features that would add a higher level of complexity to their rotation, either in place of positionals or in conjunction with them.

I would enjoy seeing at least 1 melee job without positionals in the future, just to have it as an option for the players who want it. Yes True North would be an irrelevant role action for that job, but Lucid Dreaming is already irrelevant for BLM outside of niche cases. I think role actions should exist solely to fill a need for the jobs that need them, rather than forcing all jobs of a certain role to play in the same way.

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This is pretty much my take as well. Monk being positional heavy is absolutely part of it's identity, but having positionals really doesn't need to be a requirement for all melee jobs. Heck, they could make a non positional melee job but add extra systems that make it even more complex than any other melee job to balance it out.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

If anyone thnks positionals are equal to casting, then you have a warped viewpoint and seriously can't back up your point. Positionals are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a melee class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Hot take for you to decide what attributes to skill considering you didn't complete a single savage/ultimate.

Questionable take aside, positionals definitely do add depth. if you're too lazy to do them, just play another job, there is a reason we got 16 different ones.

"Then why does TN/ROE exist?"
Because it lets them create more interesting mechanics where they don't have to adjust for melees being able to hit positionals to protect the balancing obsession this game has.

I would also be interested to know where the "it's a relic from the past" argument comes from, i've seen it thrown around left and right without any clarification why exactly that would be the case. (and almost always from people who haven't even touched gameplay content that isn't on the level of an afk idle game)

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Heals are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a healer class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Defensives are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a tank class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Cast times are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a caster class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Procs are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a ranged class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Hotkeys are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Stats are a relic from the past end of. Just because this game has them it does mean that they are defining features of a class... It's kinda sad how defensive a lot of players on the forums get over such a arbitrary design. It does NOT add complexity, it doesn't mean you are a skillful gamer, stop reaching, it's getting silly now.

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Man, those really are some hot takes.

For the 3rd year in a row.....and the 300th "Monk needs a redesign" thread. *takes off glasses, hangs head and rubs brow*

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...omplete-Rework
Enjoy the read.

Your preaching to the choir here, and if you think your ideas are exactly what the jobs needs....you're wrong. Monk has been the most discussed, most scrutinized, most examined, most theory crafted, and most debated job ever since Heavensward came out. You think that this will be fixed with just a couple of changes to the job? Please....

Monk had the most RADICAL change out of any job in the game by removing grease lighting, something that has stayed with the job since ARR 2.0 nine years ago!

I myself have posted COUNTLESS threads on how to fix monk, and with no real change ever seen. I was happy when they made the changes LATE Stromblood, but then kicked dirt when they reverted and gave me yet ANOTHER GL stack to manage.

The removal of Greased Lightning was the best thing that happened to monk since forever. I hated the mechanic, while others loved it. But while the MAJORITY of people don't play monk simply because of Greased Lightning....then remove it. And they did. Moving on....

I betting that we will see another rework for Monk in Endwalker...and the DEV's have had an entire year to work on it since the removal of GL. Plenty of time to test, and modify, and reinvent.

I bet we see a ton of skills removed, and a ton of skills reworked.

Positionals. I for one would LOVE if they got the axe, but realistically speaking we will probably see Dragon Kick and Bootshine only having positionals. Which I would also be happy with.

PvP Monk in PvE when.