Standardization of WS Damage Across All Delays

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

The big weapons run into issues when they miss, missing a hit on a slow weapon is supposed to seriously hinder your tp gain, lead to fewer ws's, and over all lower damage. With 90+% accuracy this shortcoming is never seen. I think that was the intended balance, but with effectively capped accuracy the difference that should appear between fast/slow weapons falls by the wayside.

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While it's this is true in a sense, it doesn't hold when you look at misses over a period of time. A weapon that attacks twice as fast will, of course, generate twice as many swings per period of time. Because there are twice as many swings, there are going to be twice as many misses (if accuracy is consistant). Missing twice as often as the slow weapon will mean you miss out of the same amount of tp

Edit: Quoted wrong post

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Originally Posted by Klive

Throw delay in to the equation, faster one become more powerful, since they will build TP faster and hit hard. Making using a slower weapon pointless.

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in reality, it's the opposite- because we're limited by WS cooldowns. if building faster TP meant we could net more total WSs through X minutes, yeah, the argument for the lower delay weapons is more convincing. except when you're doing a proper dps rotation every single WS should be on cooldown, meaning those faster attacks in between are netting you worthless extra TP.

might be good for soloing or low-manning stuff where you don't have access to paeon, and an argument could be made for their usefulness to tanks... but otherwise they're pretty awful.

Base damage also affects stat caps, which is kind of retarded.

I can see the problem with every job but monk. since is the one more relying on auto attack, low delay it's actually very good *tropical punches*

i just wish they would get rid of (or drastically reduce) WS timers.

how can you justify Ring of Talons 1min timer and Steel Cyclone 30 sec timer, and on top of that Steel Cyclone is a much superior WS.

and why should i be forced to use a WS that doesnt fit the situation just because the WS i actually want to use is on timer.

timers take away from the strategy of maximizing DPS.. what i mean is no matter what weapon or gear setup you use your only ever going to get so many of any one WS out in any given time frame.. because it is based around timers

It should be based on TP accumulation.. which is what TP is there for!

and while their at it change the ~''@#~# combo requirements... im messing up combos left and right cos the dam mob is moving/turning all over the place... while the dam BLM is throwing out nukes faster than my auto-attack LOL.

I realised this is somewhat off topic but just wanted to get that off my chest heh.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

i just wish they would get rid of (or drastically reduce) WS timers.

how can you justify Ring of Talons 1min timer and Steel Cyclone 30 sec timer, and on top of that Steel Cyclone is a much superior WS.

and why should i be forced to use a WS that doesnt fit the situation just because the WS i actually want to use is on timer.

timers take away from the strategy of maximizing DPS.. what i mean is no matter what weapon or gear setup you use your only ever going to get so many of any one WS out in any given time frame.. because it is based around timers

It should be based on TP accumulation.. which is what TP is there for!

and while their at it change the ~''@#~# combo requirements... im messing up combos left and right cos the dam mob is moving/turning all over the place... while the dam BLM is throwing out nukes faster than my auto-attack LOL.

I realised this is somewhat off topic but just wanted to get that off my chest heh.

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If the devs actually, god forbid, listened to you, the relative skill ceiling for every class would be ruined. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by carraway

If the devs actually, god forbid, listened to you, the relative skill ceiling for every class would be ruined. No thanks.

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i would think such a bold statement would be justified with a reason..

FFXI did fine without long timers, and it was integral part of being good at your job the accumulation and use of TP.. which is what im suggesting.. you dissagree with this from what i can make of your comment.

and it obvious that BLM damage is MUCH more efficient becouse of 1minute+ timers on WS and the requirements of combos (you cant screw up a combo on blm unless you resist.

and on top of that blm dont have to chase stuff down

see 3x BLM every single party.

so i dont think your "skill ceiling" really comes into play here

sorry but you cant convince me its ballanced- even if my suggestions wouldnt work.

Spamming the best weaponskill as soon as you hit 100% TP was pretty terrible as far as gameplay goes in FFXI. This is how FFXIV was before personal combos, and it was pretty terrible back then too. Although the positional requirements are frustrating, they (and the rest of the combo system) force players to make more choices and react faster to those choices. The more choices you have to make, and the faster you have to push buttons, the higher the skill ceiling gets. If the only choice is "always hit X" instead of "do I start X to hit Y and Z, or do I hit A then B then Keen Flurry my C so I can do C again within this three-minute fight, or do I hit X then Y and Z, then X and Y, then A then B then C", the element of choice is removed, and only the element of player response time and server latency remains.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Spamming the best weaponskill as soon as you hit 100% TP was pretty terrible as far as gameplay goes in FFXI. This is how FFXIV was before personal combos, and it was pretty terrible back then too. Although the positional requirements are frustrating, they (and the rest of the combo system) forces players to make more choices and react faster to those choices. The more choices you have to make, and the faster you have to push buttons, the higher the skill ceiling gets. If the only choice is "always hit X" instead of "do I start X to hit Y and Z, or do I hit A then B then Keen Flurry my C so I can do C again within this three-minute fight, or do I hit X then Y and Z, then X and Y, then A then B then C", the element of choice is removed, and only the element of player response time and server latency remains.

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I agree with what you are saying.

BUT i think your forgetting that BLM (and BRD) dont have the same requirements so if you accept that how can you then justify saying that DRG and MNK should be have their hands tied in this way.

you can either tie the hands of BLM and BRD or take the cuffs off melee.. tbh im not bothered which.

BLM and DRG are both essentially DPS correct? then why is it very common to see 3,4 blm in a party? it is because of the reasons i have stated.

i see your in BG so im quite sure you are very aware of this.

BRD has range requirements that already negatively affect its DPS ceiling.
MNK has as high or a higher DPS ceiling than BLM, but a commensurately higher skill ceiling due to positional requirements.
DRG admittedly needs some upward tuning; the devs have acknowledged that.

Rather than rip out the fundamental system that encourages a higher level of player performance, there are better ways to go about balancing things.