Please do not ruin summoner! I heard that summons are being removed

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Originally Posted by MoltresRider

I played SMN from ARR to current and I have major muscle memory for summoner. Again, gotta learn to play with it and get used to it. I am used to summoner as it gets. I played through the game with three different summoner characters.

The fact that it is getting a rework is going to throw me off muscle memory-wise.

Plus, how do you expect us all summoner mains to dive into 80 - 90 content WHILE having to completely relearn our job?


Edit: They BETTER NOT remove resurrection from summoner either. I love my macro.

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Re-learning a job's functionality is something that comes hand-in-hand with big reworks, there's no way to avoid it other than... not doing the rework to begin with. Happened with MCH into ShB, and will probably happen with SMN, and MNK at some capacity. It's not like raiding or Savages will be available right away, so there's time to adjust... Or even adjust to the new abilities across the board, as there are cases of jobs, like BLM, that despite not having a heavy rework, has its playstyle changed a lot through the level tiers.

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Originally Posted by MoltresRider

Plus, how do you expect us all summoner mains to dive into 80 - 90 content WHILE having to completely relearn our job?

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MCH did it and it had a clunky and complex rotation, the job changed completely.
The ammos were removed, the heat gauge completely changed and what remained was the 1 2 3 combo that wasn't random anymore and the Wildfire that was a bit more consistent.

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Originally Posted by MoltresRider

People who complain summoner is broken, are not those who played the ENTIRE game as summoner. You just got to learn to use it properly

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I think you don't understand "Breaking point" and "Broken".
SMN is clunky like MCH with SB Flamethrower or Early ShB Anatman.

People complains a lot about Egi (Or SCH Fairies) and how slow they obey the commands. Sometimes even ghost it.
SMN has instant casts, which means you should be able to freely move, right?
Wrong, Bahamut is lazy and prefer to follow his summoner rather than stay idle and attack.

This is definitely what I think Yoshida means by "breaking point", SMN currently works but adding more could make the job unplayable or with a rotation that will not be fun anymore.
I played a lot of SMN during HW, summons were slow but you could work with that. SB was better, but ShB... I don't want to touch it anymore.

I saw the title of this thread and was reminded of one of those phising scam tells you get in game from time to time. "Square Enix should not be doing this at such a sensative time!"

Breaking point does not mean they're saying it's clunky, it means they're saying they can't add any more skills without making the class feel incrediblely bloated

I went from level 1 beginning of ARR to MSQ completed from August 17, 2020 to MSQ completed Early-March-something, did extremes until 5.5 dropped, did 5.5, all with using summoner. I did not even touch another job until I completed MSQ in March. And then I did a little with Red Mage. I really prefer summoner and how it works now—especially in high levels. I will give you that now since doing 80 content, now lower levels summoner feels boring, but that is what Red Mage is for.

Summoner did not really get anything new from 60 on other than upgrades to Dreadwyrm Trance and Firebird Trance. They could keep going with that. How about the third stage be Lunar Trance? Perhaps with Lunar Bahamut at 90?

Basically, that is what I was hoping for anyway since Lunar Bahamut came into the picture at the end of 5.whatever-it-was just before 5.5 and in 5.5. Lunar Bahamut is absolutely beautiful.

If you really want to add a new ability to SMN, just combo off ruin

I think what you're not understanding is the danger of adding a 3rd trance, summoner suffers a lot from dying with it having a two minute rotation that resets to the begining if you fail, also combos could be an intresting mechanic but it's definitely not enough to keep the average raider satisfied. And yes most people agree that there classes suck at least a little before level 80, that's a deeper problem because FFXIV has trickle-down balancing, where balancing is focused on the high end.

That'd be dope af. Like Ifrit as an actual Hellhound, Garuda as a winged hawk-woman much like her smaller adds, and - well forget titan, or make titan a cone based DPS summon and looking like a proper golem because at this rate there is never use of one during any high level combat, which makes it obsolete.

I can't see them getting rid of the actual summons, given... y'know, the class is called Summoner.

But, I can see them nixing the pet system and just having the Egis appear when you use oGCDs. I'd honestly like it if they just made it so that Carbuncle was part of our character model that sticks to our side like a well-trained dog would in real life while our weapon is drawn, and instead of having Ruin and Outburst, our basic GCDs are instead Carbuncle's attacks. When Arcanist becomes Summoner, they get access to Egi Assault I, which is a single-target oGCD, at level 35, you get Egi Support, which is a defensive buff, and at level 45, you get access to Egi Assault II, which is an AoE oGCD. You can then assign whatever Egis you have, from the Primals you've already encountered in game, to those abilities as you see fit. Instead of making your summon do a powerful move, Enkindle can instead make your next Egi Assault/Support transform into Demi Assault/Support, the Egi becoming a Demi Primal for that move at an increased effect.

When you unlock Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix, Carbuncle gets replaced with them and they move about as if they were part of your character model, just like Carbuncle does. I'd also just make it so that Demi-Bahamut is summoned with Dreadwyrm Trance, to make it consistent with Firebird Trance, and replace your GCDs with similar moves to Fountain of Fire and Brand of Purgatory.

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Originally Posted by Rollout

I'd honestly like it if they just made it so that Carbuncle was part of our character model that sticks to our side like a well-trained dog would in real life while our weapon is drawn

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Yeah this is what I want

SMN feels at the same point that MCH did an expansion ago. A bit bloated, a lack of clear priority and overall not as streamlined as it used to be. That being said, the last things the devs want to do is ruin a job or make it less fulfilling to play.

Summoning Bahamut felt like a huge OSHI moments for most SMNs that they were proud of. Phoenix probably less likely so but still a cool thing to have. With pets not being able to take enmity (or damage) like chocobo companions, they lost a lot of their uniqueness.

If Reaper has any inclination of where SE may go (often times new things / items show the devs are trying out something) then maybe the EGIs will be more temporary summons and Carbuncle be the star of the show. I doubt it but its a potential.

I do like how the three egis play a bit different (Ifrit - melee DPS, Gaurda - AOE ranged DPS, Titan - balance of both) but the fact that titan can no longer "tank" kind of made him less viable compared to just DPS. I think this is mainly where SE needs to decide on the identity of the job for the future.

I would like to see the job keep its DOT nature (vs BLM bursting and RDM fast casting) with the pets and oGCD stuff keeping the burst damage up. As for Bahamut / Phoenix yeh they are super cool but they are an extra step at this point. Phoenix is super nice to have the AOE healing regen though (coming from a healer).

I hope summoners get the ability to also have the (6) base avatars as either glams or upgrades (Ifrit - Levithan, Gaurda - Shiva, Titan - Ramuh) or something of the sort if their lore is based on the main "terrestrial avatars" . Having (6) different avatars with unique abilities would put the job in a hard spot to develop and balance for the future.

I wish they could have their identity follow the expansion themes a bit more to keep things fresh. But who knows, I hope they get the love they deserve. I miss playing my SMN but right now it just doesn't feel as fluid as the other casters.