The dream of Mythic is basically dead... Frost Interview with Yoshida

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

because your basically doing the imaginary content of a insane bard and content that merely exist as just that should not reward physical items it makes no sense

but like i said this is simply my opinion

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so you went from "no rewards because the experience and challenge should be enough" to "no rewards because the content is fake actually."

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

so you went from "no rewards because the experience and challenge should be enough" to "no rewards because the content is fake actually."

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actually no i addressed the need for challenge and my own view on the rewards i was making the argument that extreme and savage gear makes the challenging content you people seem to crave trivial and that there for the rewards should be removed when you severely over gear the content to the point that it goes from being challenging to become a farming fodder clearly the rewards are the problem

i also added in the point that the content never happen it's just make believe so how does a make believe story reward you physical items

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

actually no i addressed the need for challenge and my own view on the rewards i was making the argument that extreme and savage gear makes the challenging content you people seem to crave trivial and that there for the rewards should be removed when you severely over gear the content to the point that it goes from being challenging to become a farming fodder clearly the rewards are the problem

i also added in the point that the content never happen it's just make believe

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there are multiple facets as to why people like midcore content like savage. challenge is one part, but there are those who do them for speed kills and parse runs, mechanical difficulty, etc.

additionally, this content tends not to become truly trivialized until a new tier is released. if your argument is that extreme and Savage content should not drop weapons, gear, mounts, crafting mats, etc outside of the tier they're being released in, then you're arbitrarily limiting more casual players from earning those rewards at a later time for... pretty much no reason.

a good amount of rewards in this game come from increasingly improbable places. to say, this shouldn't drop because it doesn't make sense in this aspect should apply equally to things like the Nier hairstyles or mounts and emotes earned from Eureka or Ishgard Restoration.

In my opinion, it'd be nice if they added difficulty to dungeons. Even if it were in what some would call a, "tedious" way.

Make a new set of dungeons. Call it, "Long Boi+". Have the dungeons with twists, turns, minor puzzles, and have it so that either the timer is shorter or the content takes up most of the 90 minute default. Maybe make the bosses on par with normal mode raids. Make the rewards gear that's 5 iLvls higher than normal mode raid. Have it come out a patch or two after the normal mode raid of each tier.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

In my opinion, it'd be nice if they added difficulty to dungeons. Even if it were in what some would call a, "tedious" way.

Make a new set of dungeons. Call it, "Long Boi+". Have the dungeons with twists, turns, minor puzzles, and have it so that either the timer is shorter or the content takes up most of the 90 minute default. Maybe make the bosses on par with normal mode raids. Make the rewards gear that's 5 iLvls higher than normal mode raid. Have it come out a patch or two after the normal mode raid of each tier.

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Giving Bosses and the random monsters a bigger variety of deadly skills, more HP and a little bit more reaction time (so that they tend to use skills more often) would be more than enough difficulty already with far less effort from the development team, in my opinion. It is amazing how content such as Triple Triad and Housing get more attention than Dungeons, the combat system and PvP.

I do agree with the Bard at the end of the video saying that "They dont play this type of content". I mean, they kinda do in one way or another, but i get the feeling that the Development Team and Yoshi P. don't understand that difficult content, especially for smaller player count is essential to have a proper endgame, be it PvE or PvP.

Again, then make it 8 players. I've seen people asking for 8-people DUNGEONS for a while now.
Praetorium and Meridianum only suck because they're designed to be super easy and are loaded with unskippable cutscenes.

Other than that... I hate comparison to Mythic, because while I want harder dungeons, and dungeons that aren't designed like glorified dull hallways, I hate the idea of "speedrunning" or imposing a very strict time limit. The challenge shouldn't be coming from the clock.

Savage isn't 'midcore'. Anything that requires multiple weeks of practice to clear, with a static party, can't be called 'midcore'. Extremes are the only content between casual and hardcore in XIV, but before Stormblood dungeons were my favorite feature, and I want to get fun dungeons again, not just more boss arenas.
To me trials always felt like just one part of the package while dungeons were the complete service. It's a shame my mentality is completely opposing to how Yoshida and the XIV team seem to think.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

This kind of stuff genuinely erodes my interest in the game. I've joined random mostly-casual FCs a few times, only for people to immediately develop a negative predisposition towards me as soon as they find out hardcore content is my main interest, even if they're people I've never personally interacted with. I've taught people to raid, only to have their friends accuse me of "ruining" or "tainting" them. I wish I was kidding. If you spend time on twitter or in facebook groups for this game, there is genuine "beware of raiders" and "don't befriend raiders" discourse pretty frequently.

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Same as you.

I would say that my skill in game is in average clear and scoring of deep dungeons on team, primal extremes ( content that i enjoy the most ) and savages kills on three or four month which is not elitist i think.

I have joined a lot of casual/midcore FC and the last one kicked me. My mistake : I asked the kill of a the primal extreme and Unreal of the new patch week 1…because it was elitist.

The only « elitist » thing that i have done on 7 years of playing this game was… one pull of Alexander Ultimate….

On the other side, when they need a deep dungeon clear or if it s week 7 or 8 of the primal, often old mate from this FC ask me fo help to kill lol

Sorry for my english

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

This kind of stuff genuinely erodes my interest in the game. I've joined random mostly-casual FCs a few times, only for people to immediately develop a negative predisposition towards me as soon as they find out hardcore content is my main interest, even if they're people I've never personally interacted with. I've taught people to raid, only to have their friends accuse me of "ruining" or "tainting" them. I wish I was kidding. If you spend time on twitter or in facebook groups for this game, there is genuine "beware of raiders" and "don't befriend raiders" discourse pretty frequently.

When I started playing the game in HW I was fed the same kind of stuff by my gr00mer FC leader at the time, and embarrassingly ended up engaging in 'you pull it you tank it' behavior under his encouragement. Newer players are trained to be in a state of constant insecurity and told that the elitist boogeyman is constantly watching them, when in reality truly elitist interactions are extremely rare in game, even in higher difficulty content. This insecurity and frankly, paranoia, is what causes casual players to lash out when they feel they've been slighted or demeaned, even if they're just reading something completely incorrectly.

I've had to talk grown adults down from literal hissy fits in voice chat, simply because they misunderstood a literal compliment someone else in the group gave them, and assumed they were instead being criticized by an "elitist".

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I've had similar experiences and I wouldn't consider myself a 'hardcore' player so much as someone who just likes to dabble in as much of the game as possible and collect minions, mounts and neat glamour.

I've never played a game with such a flaky community before. It's a real shame - I like a lot of stuff about FFXIV. It's not a perfect game and I have my beef with it, but out of all the options where MMO's are concerned it's at the top of the pile for me on almost every front.

It's just...so hard to find people to do stuff with, though. From treasure maps to deep dungeons to BLU challenges...

So, i am all for casuals enjoying the game, but then those same casuals bleed into not so casual content like Extreme Trials for whatever reasons. And what happens is, that they fail and need to be carried by "hardcore" and "elitists". The problem is when there's a majority of casuals, they wipe to the enrage. No, i am not salty that the group i was in wiped to Enrage in Diamond EX farm several times yesterday, because even despite all DPS having Diamond Zeta weapons, aside from me (NIN ~20k) and BRD (18k) group's overall dps was really really bad even with 0 deaths. Like 15k from SAM, 13k from RDM. Tanks did below average damage for that fight as well, 7-8k and both healers did almost no damage whatsoever. I left after the third such wipe. Or i remember The Burn, where Medica 2 WHM just couldn't plain handle Mist Dragon, we cleared after 7 wipes when they somehow managed to get their stuff together, but it was way too hard for casual healer.
So, no, we absolutely must have 4-man harder content in the game, not Mythic+, but at least something that keeps people more alert, than half-asleep.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Again, then make it 8 players. I've seen people asking for 8-people DUNGEONS for a while now.
Praetorium and Meridianum only suck because they're designed to be super easy and are loaded with unskippable cutscenes.

Other than that... I hate comparison to Mythic, because while I want harder dungeons, and dungeons that aren't designed like glorified dull hallways, I hate the idea of "speedrunning" or imposing a very strict time limit. The challenge shouldn't be coming from the clock.

Savage isn't 'midcore'. Anything that requires multiple weeks of practice to clear, with a static party, can't be called 'midcore'. Extremes are the only content between casual and hardcore in XIV, but before Stormblood dungeons were my favorite feature, and I want to get fun dungeons again, not just more boss arenas.
To me trials always felt like just one part of the package while dungeons were the complete service. It's a shame my mentality is completely opposing to how Yoshida and the XIV team seem to think.

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Yeah it’s unfortunate that they’re apparently deciding to streamline dungeons even more in 6.0. I genuinely don’t even know how that’s possible given how easy the dungeons have been lately. They seem to only care about appeasing the loud, extremely casual playerbase.