The dream of Mythic is basically dead... Frost Interview with Yoshida

[Puremallace]

Right at 4 minutes Yoshida basically admits the game is very casual and 4 man content in Mythic type content would lead to wipe fest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C79Oc_HRo1U

This kills me a little on the inside because the 4 man content needs to evolve into a more Mythic type system just to have it there as a challenge.

It does not even need to be progression and could be literally only glamour or mounts for all people would care.

[Liam_Harper]

In the case of a four-player high-difficulty dungeon, there is much less room for players to work with when it comes to party deaths or mistakes. If even a single party member is incapacitated or makes a mistake, it will invariably lead to a wipe, with not much leeway to save the run or come up with a creative solution. Another major reason is because our community continues to grow—naturally this is bringing in many casual players, and I believe that when looking at the bigger pictures, large-scale content will be easier for all players to get into

Basically it admits that they prefer large scale challenging content, because a single player playing poorly will not necessarily wipe the run. It's that mindset where even if some players want challenging content, they aren't allowed it because they're supposed to be carrying the casual playerbase and that comes first. It's a strange mindset since the Japanese community actively avoids carrying people who don't contribute to the point of unofficial public blacklists. It's also very unrewarding for the skilled player to be constantly putting in work carrying the casual playerbase, yet rarely receive recognition or their own content and are often shunned as a "tryhard" or "elitist" by the very players they carry. Why bother?

In an ideal world, we'd have both a healthy mix of casual and challenging content, including dungeons, and both types of player could enjoy their own content. It's a shame, tbh Mythic+ wasn't even that hardcore outside of pushing very high keys and they don't even have to adopt the timer system.

[LittleImp]

It's also very unrewarding for the skilled player to be constantly putting in work carrying the casual playerbase, yet rarely receive recognition or their own content and are often shunned as a "tryhard" or "elitist" by the very players they carry. Why bother?

This kind of stuff genuinely erodes my interest in the game. I've joined random mostly-casual FCs a few times, only for people to immediately develop a negative predisposition towards me as soon as they find out hardcore content is my main interest, even if they're people I've never personally interacted with. I've taught people to raid, only to have their friends accuse me of "ruining" or "tainting" them. I wish I was kidding. If you spend time on twitter or in facebook groups for this game, there is genuine "beware of raiders" and "don't befriend raiders" discourse pretty frequently.

When I started playing the game in HW I was fed the same kind of stuff by my gr00mer FC leader at the time, and embarrassingly ended up engaging in 'you pull it you tank it' behavior under his encouragement. Newer players are trained to be in a state of constant insecurity and told that the elitist boogeyman is constantly watching them, when in reality truly elitist interactions are extremely rare in game, even in higher difficulty content. This insecurity and frankly, paranoia, is what causes casual players to lash out when they feel they've been slighted or demeaned, even if they're just reading something completely incorrectly.

I've had to talk grown adults down from literal hissy fits in voice chat, simply because they misunderstood a literal compliment someone else in the group gave them, and assumed they were instead being criticized by an "elitist".

[Puremallace]

In an ideal world, we'd have both a healthy mix of casual and challenging content, including dungeons, and both types of player could enjoy their own content. It's a shame, tbh Mythic+ wasn't even that hardcore outside of pushing very high keys and they don't even have to adopt the timer system.

It is just surprising. I get the concept because Yoshida thinks people are asking for full blown Mythic plus affixes every season with new concepts when in reality the playerbase of WoW ends up hating most of the affixes and actively avoids the game in horrible weeks.

What would be interesting to give players control is a way to adjust dungeon settings to create player made challenge modes. I mean it is mostly an epeen measuring contest anyways and I think if they are that worried about the casuals it is a way to appease the more hardcore base of the MMO.

They have to throw a bone at some point.

[Liam_Harper]

This kind of stuff genuinely erodes my interest in the game. I've joined random mostly-casual FCs a few times, only for people to immediately develop a negative predisposition towards me as soon as they find out hardcore content is my main interest, even if they're people I've never personally interacted with. I've taught people to raid, only to have their friends accuse me of "ruining" or "tainting" them. I wish I was kidding.

Sad to say I've experienced similar too. I used to organize EX and Savage in my FC, which went great until a bump with performance during the last boss of a tier. As in mathematically impossible to progress until worked on. I tried everything to be as accommodating as possible, open practice runs, friendly mentoring but in the end some became distant towards me as if I was causing trouble, leading to an eventual silent demotion from the officer group. The game has such a safety bubble environment that anyone who tries to disturb that, even for good reason, can be resented. Things like that definitely erode interest in the game.

Overall in ff14, even if you know things will be a struggle and why, you're meant to stay silent and try to carry the extra weight so the rest of the group can sit happy in the illusion that everything is good.

[DPZ2]

So, is there any reason those of you who really, really like Mythic+ in WoW aren't playing it there, rather than wishing a game from another company, with other goals in mind, should implement it? (Or, I guess, that part of it that isn't despised by the WoW community)?

Frankly, I was never enthused about running that content.

[Absurdity]

So, is there any reason those of you who really, really like Mythic+ in WoW aren't playing it there, rather than wishing a game from another company, with other goals in mind, should implement it? (Or, I guess, that part of it that isn't despised by the WoW community)?

Frankly, I was never enthused about running that content.

Because nobody actually wants WoW's mythic+ dungeons, they just want something similar to it that works in XIV. Because this game suffers from a painful lack of challenge that isn't 8man savage or ultimate, it especially lacks challenging light party content.
Expert roulette is more of a boring chore to get tomestones where you run through differently colored straight corridors while trying to not fall asleep.
HoH and PotD do provide a certain challenge but most people have run those ad nauseum at this point and those two are pretty much the only challenging 4man content this game has.


I for example haven't done any roulettes in...probably about 3 months now, because I just don't get any enjoyment out of running content that is so mindnumbingly easy that you can beat it by only pressing 1-2-3.

[_Koneko_]

Personally I'm of the opinion that savage and extreme should have it's rewards removed after all you people say you want a challenge and being rewarded higher tier gear then normal or weekly trivializes the content and they never happened anyway so why are you being physically rewarded for them

so no mount, no gear, nothing just at Title ...

also i'm glad mythic + was ion's greatest failure

[Mavrias]

Personally I'm of the opinion that savage and extreme should have it's rewards removed after all you people say you want a challenge and being rewarded higher tier gear then normal or weekly trivializes the content and they never happened anyway so why are you being physically rewarded for them

so no mount, no gear, nothing just at Title ...

interesting thought, but why do you want this? why should you not be rewarded for doing content you already enjoy?

let me respond to your bad faith argument with another: should then all minions, orchestrions, unique gear models, etc be removed from more lenient content like dungeons and fates, as well?

[_Koneko_]

because your basically doing the imaginary content of a insane bard and content that merely exist as just that should not reward physical items it makes no sense

but like i said this is simply my opinion