Unreal raids sounds like the best bet, particularly because of the format that they come out in allotments (which helps focus players onto one specific, makes the relearning and funneling aspects more likely to succeed).
Although I wonder if players were given the choice of a new hard content or a remixed old content which they'd prefer.
I thought the presentation of the first raids were neat, I like the idea of exploring (akin to dungeons I suppose). I'd never play it (not interested in playing so good that it feels like work lol - I like to use skills and stuff but if I turn and talk to my wife for half a second I don't want the entire dungeon to be ruined because it just caused 6 people to wipe, or alternatively and more likely someone else keeps ruining it all and the 1 hour I had available is largely wasted time (imo, I know some people enjoy banging their head against the wall, aspirational content as I see some people calling it now - Packetdancer I think started it lol)), but it was why I suggested ultimate 'raids' (zones), like coil and like most WoW raids (thinking more WoW, since you had branching paths/wings in that), might be something special for those hardcore players. Progression of areas adds a lot to the flow (and to watching them I think, rather than simply one boxed room over and over).
Of course since it was brought up, if it's new content or old but still has issues, I'd love for unsync (or a limited job designed to handle stuff solo) exists to the point I can do it later solo :p (many coils can be done solo, a few are a bit goofy though like handling the dragons).
Lets Talk ARR Content Revival: Coil
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02-20-2021, 05:10 AMShougun
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02-20-2021, 05:37 AMJeeqbit
It's not that they abandoned it specifically. It's that like any other content, they created it and then moved onto creating new things.
It's still there and you can still do it minimum item level. Every data center has a minimum item level discord server, and coils are about the most common content in them.
The problem is that there isn't any incentive to do old content minimum item level and no echo, which could be solved simply by awarding a mount for it.
They have in some form revisited the content multiple times though, first with the ultimate raid (which is what you actually named), and then with the blue mage updates that gave us a Morbol mount for doing T5, T9 and T13 minilvl no echo, but of course blue mage isn't the same as normal jobs. -
02-20-2021, 05:39 AMStyrmwyda
The biggest problem with the Coils raid series is a lack of a normal mode.
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02-20-2021, 06:08 PMVyrerusThe Coils only ever had normal mode, until they decided to put in Savage Second Coil which is the only series in the set that has a Savage option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Styrmwyda
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02-20-2021, 06:11 PMKaurhzHonestly, with the way coils worked back then, the normal mode back then was essentially Extreme/Savage-tier difficulty, with the actual SCoB (Savage) probably being somewhere just above current day savagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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02-20-2021, 08:27 PMVyrerusYes and no. It was a different time with a different playerbase. There weren't any standards for the raid, other than you had to have defeated Titan Hard Mode and then unlocked it. For the most part with each tier, the first 3 fights were easy to figure out and to beat. Only the last fight of each raid tier really had any teeth, particularly Turns 5 and 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
The mechanics were more obtuse than today's Savage, but they were also largely more forgiving. DPS checks were also fairly lenient, you were more likely to die to the cavalcade of mechanics than you were to ever see an enrage. And this was before things like The Balance Discord... or even Discord.
Honestly, most of coil is like one step above a normal mode raid by today's standards, but they aren't essentially Savage. There were a lot of fights where you could delegate responsibility to just 3 or so people, and have them handle all of the actual mechanics, while everybody else just performs their role. A ton of people got carried through the coils, even while they were current content. -
02-20-2021, 10:42 PMItMeNot with how cheeseable a lot of those fights are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
For example, my friend showed me a vid where if you spin Nael real fast she's unable to actually do her mechanics (fun fact that works on Amon in Syrcus Tower too). -
02-20-2021, 10:58 PMMicahZerrshiaAgreed. I think a lot of us just have...what's the opposite of rose colored glasses, when it comes to coil, because back then it was difficult. But compared to todays 8 mans, its a walk in the park. People even struggled with Titan hard back then too and used to buy wins for their relic steps, yet it is now mechanically nothing compared to even something we now see as simple as Twintania or Hades nm. The playerbase has just adapted and changed and now we see things as too easy that would have been too hard back in 2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
When our first FC group went through coil we had a married couple that consisted of one of the worst healers I have ever encountered and a bard that if they were a bard in real life would have tripped over their bow and snapped it clean in half they were so incompetent, but we still made it through just fine and let them stay since they were friends (or I thought they were, they left the fc the moment they got the final coil win). In today's savage fights, I would have booted them from our group. -
02-21-2021, 12:36 AMKaurhzSure if your intention is to cheese strat it then that's an entirely different story but how about doing that at Level 50, and on every single encounter for a good 11 minutes straight versus at Lv60 with 4 people at +120 above the Item Level cap for the game at the time. Or even executing the mechanics in the way that the developers intended for you to do so, a completely different story then. My point still stands that mechanically these fights were quite easily a cut above normal mode, and as I said, Extreme/Savage, so somewhere between, but I guess this largely comes down to subjectivity than anything. In normal mode, I can queue up and be done within 1-3 wipes at most on any given Eden encounter. Comparatively, coils, even T5 back when I did it nearing the end of ARR was mostly party disbands with people not baiting Divebombs appropriately, nor handling Dreadnaughts, or avoiding Twisters/overlapping them. To a degree, the same reigns true even today with a lot of PF parties on Blue Mage. It took quite a while for people to stop getting divebombed into the wall, see the Twister cast and move around, or burst down dreadnaughts before they decided to wreck people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
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02-21-2021, 04:45 AMTracewood
Rather than a revival, how about we keep the dungeonesque style of coil for the new raids instead of making them just more EX fights. Or just make it an eight man dungeon with checkpoints, do away with the loot penalty for skipping ahead but still keep the weekly lockout.
Add some interesting mechanics, like make a boss put up a shield (Think Ravana), which causes it to go invulnerable. Trash spawn in the large room and you need to find the bigger trash mob that drops a unique item that goes to the R3 button(or whatever it is on PC), that item is the only thing that can shatter the shield. Everyone has to get this item for Savage, but normal just a couple people. Since in Savage the shield would need eight hits, and each hit depletes the R3 item, hence need all players. Also, yes if you use the R3 item on a trash you basically have to wait until another spawns or something. Also this would be more like steps of faith where you have a boss set on a path, if the boss reaches the end of the path that's a wipe. Also in this room, there are places players need to seek shelter for a room wide AOE that literally burns your HP in seconds.
Or a raid area where you're in a very dark pit, full of respawning trash that can overwhelm a party and you must light the right torches (by standing right next to it) for the paths to keep opening up. Eventually you make your way to the end of this dark area (and have loot off the beaten path to reward the more braver raiders) and have to form a bridge by standing by two unique lanterns while fending off the respawning trash, and a couple mini bosses to spice things up.