What's up with the other members of the Convocation? (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

what I always wondered shouldn't there be a sundered ascian part on each world like with our character as well? If Igeyorhm we killed in Azys Lla was from the Source she should have been rejoined 7 times. Apparently Ardbert and co killed all Ascians of the First. that would still leave 5 pieces of Igeyorhm around (maybe 4, depends how the 13th acts in this case).
Or do all pieces get erased when the Source piece is gone?

Also is Hydaelyn also sundered or is she present on all worlds?

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Hydaelyn is present on all worlds, as she created the sundering that split them.

And outside means like white auracite need to be used to disrupt the aether of the Ascians and send them on to death by joining the lifestream (otherwise they can come back). Other ways the plot has used are to absorb the Ascian's aether is to summon a primal or channel it through the crystal tower out to space.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

what I always wondered shouldn't there be a sundered ascian part on each world like with our character as well? If Igeyorhm we killed in Azys Lla was from the Source she should have been rejoined 7 times. Apparently Ardbert and co killed all Ascians of the First. that would still leave 5 pieces of Igeyorhm around (maybe 4, depends how the 13th acts in this case).
Or do all pieces get erased when the Source piece is gone?

Also is Hydaelyn also sundered or is she present on all worlds?

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Someone else jogged my memory - sundered Ascians aren't necessarily created using the soul fragments of their former station holders, though they are preferable to using random people. While Azem's seems to have lacked the feature, the implication is that the memory crystals more or less force the identity of the Convocation seat holder onto people.

Logically speaking there may be sundered Ascian fragments on the various worlds, but the cycle of souls may still be in play as it is for Azem and lead to them being reincarnated. Either way, their deaths (body and soul) wouldn't stop the unsundered from raising up pliant mortals.

(I suspect this has something to do with Fandaniel's... eccentric personality.)

Hydaelyn is present on all worlds, and is the same being across them. (Kinda. She's not actually summoned, just kinda floating around the aetherial sea.)

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Originally Posted by Cilia

the aetherial sea.)

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this is where we end up after Antitower? not really related to the topic but wouldn't that technically be a way to travel to the other worlds?

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

this is where we end up after Antitower? not really related to the topic but wouldn't that technically be a way to travel to the other worlds?

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From what I understand, during those moments where the WoL appears in the aetherial sea, our physical body remains in the location they were at before such scenes. In other words, while the Word of the Mother is chatting with us, our body is just sort of hanging out in the Antitower.

So while we probably could travel to other worlds this way, we'd have to leave our physical body behind to do so. Only the Exarch has managed to circumvent that limitation, both in his initial departure from the Eighth Era to the First and in his subsequent summoning of the WoL from the Source to the First. Even then, his first half-dozen attempts all backfired horribly—The first five attempts ended up pulling the Scions' souls out of their bodies instead, and the sixth attempt left the WoL's comatose body just a few fulms away from Elidibus-Zenos.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

this is where we end up after Antitower? not really related to the topic but wouldn't that technically be a way to travel to the other worlds?

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That it is. We also travel there briefly after the showdown with the Warriors of Darkness in 3.4 to feed Hydaelyn enough Light aether to free Minfilia and send her to the First.

Not sure if it can be used to traverse worlds. Nothing has said it can do so thus far.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

That it is. We also travel there briefly after the showdown with the Warriors of Darkness in 3.4 to feed Hydaelyn enough Light aether to free Minfilia and send her to the First.

Not sure if it can be used to traverse worlds. Nothing has said it can do so thus far.

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They don't expound on it, and it seems to be driven by Minfilia's help, but the WoDs leave for The First from there using their Crystals of Light, as they did with Elidibus's aid when they committed sudoku.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

From what I understand, during those moments where the WoL appears in the aetherial sea, our physical body remains in the location they were at before such scenes. In other words, while the Word of the Mother is chatting with us, our body is just sort of hanging out in the Antitower.

So while we probably could travel to other worlds this way, we'd have to leave our physical body behind to do so. Only the Exarch has managed to circumvent that limitation, both in his initial departure from the Eighth Era to the First and in his subsequent summoning of the WoL from the Source to the First. Even then, his first half-dozen attempts all backfired horribly—The first five attempts ended up pulling the Scions' souls out of their bodies instead, and the sixth attempt left the WoL's comatose body just a few fulms away from Elidibus-Zenos.

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This is actually a grey area for the game, because when we go with the WoDs using our Crystals of Light, everyone is teleported along with us, and we are shown teleporting back into Southern Thanalan. When we're sent back from the first Word encounter, we're straight teleported back to Matoya's Cave. While it doesn't discredit the notion that we'd need to renounce our flesh to world hop, going to the aetherial sea was done with our bodies intact and present in the sea itself.

The aetherial sea seems to be the space between the sundered worlds, but I assume traversing it is not so simple.

The aetherial sea isn't the space between the Shards. If it was, souls would just rejoin in the sea as they naturally do after a rejoining. Basically it appears each Shard's Lifestreams are not connected to each other.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

The aetherial sea isn't the space between the Shards. If it was, souls would just rejoin in the sea as they naturally do after a rejoining. Basically it appears each Shard's Lifestreams are not connected to each other.

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Each Lifestream is attached to the Aetherial Sea. This much is apparent due to Minfilia getting sucked into the Flow teleportation magic that spirits her through the Lifestream to the Aetherial Sea. And it is where Hydaelyn resides and keeps watch on all shards, so yes, it is.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I'd like to add my hunch that the 12 Ancients following Venat and help summon Hydaelyn are probably the 12 gods of the people of Eorzea. You can see them in the cutscene that immediately follows Anemnesis Anyder.

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Whatever is going on, it's more complicated than that. Azem isn't one of those twelve, but got a goddess named after them regardless.

Meanwhile, whether planned or not, Nald'thal seems to equate to Emet-Selch quite neatly. Lord of the Underworld and associated with Gemini, the Twins...

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I've wondered if these memories could be triggered with interaction with the missing Midgradsormr children who would have lived through all of these events.

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Midgardsormr, Hraesvelgr, Nidhogg and Tiamat lived through all those events too, and they didn't trigger anything in us. There's nothing inherently special about the other dragons just because of that.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

While Tenzen being a previous incarnation of Azem is on the table, Ramza is not - his soul is still lingering around the Orbonne Monastery when we go there.

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Tenzen's soul was apparently bound up in Koryu's seal, so he can't have been an incarnation either.

Unless of course we're understanding the "one soul per shard" thing wrong and they can all flow freely through the aetherial sea and pop up anywhere, in which case it would be possible for them to be other shards of Azem... but that explanation may be messier in other ways. We still don't understand how the aetherial sea works.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

So while we probably could travel to other worlds this way, we'd have to leave our physical body behind to do so. Only the Exarch has managed to circumvent that limitation, both in his initial departure from the Eighth Era to the First and in his subsequent summoning of the WoL from the Source to the First. Even then, his first half-dozen attempts all backfired horribly—The first five attempts ended up pulling the Scions' souls out of their bodies instead, and the sixth attempt left the WoL's comatose body just a few fulms away from Elidibus-Zenos.

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While it's arguably no longer a true world but a void where a world used to be, we did physically go to the World of Darkness prior to that - and using a gate opened by the Crystal Tower to do so. It may be a critical part of the mechanism for the summoning spell, even if Omega's rift powers were also needed for the full solution.

On "messing up the sixth attempt" to summon us, I feel like that one might have been more that it was urgent to get in contact right now and he didn't have time to properly set up the summoning, so he sort of pulled us halfway just to get the message across.

It's also my headcanon that this might have been the actual point where the timelines diverge, and if he hadn't pulled us there and then we would have killed "Zenos" and it would have been a turning point in the battle that eventually led to the cornered Garleans using Black Rose.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Meanwhile, whether planned or not, Nald'thal seems to equate to Emet-Selch quite neatly. Lord of the Underworld and associated with Gemini, the Twins...

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Nald'Thal (or more specifically Nald) is also the god associated with commerce and trade. Emet-Selch didn't even bother with trade in his empire-building, preferring espionage and conquest instead.

More directly, there isn't any deity in Aldenard nor Othard (we know the Garleans prohibited religion on Ilsabard) that has a name that sounds like "Emet-Selch" (or "Hades"), to the same degree as Azem and Azeyma/Azim.