DRK enmity gen vs other tanks

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Originally Posted by Magictrix

Why is drk's enmity gen so much less than other tanks? In a case where the drk has the same level gear, the other tanks will generate more enmity. In a case where the drk has slightly better gear, the other tanks will generate more enmity.

Why is this and can we get a buff or something at some point during this expansion?

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Less DPS, needs lucky crits on Bloodspillers.
Does it matter? Nope, you got tank stance, doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Enmity combos were impossible to balance if I recall. That is why they removed DPS stances from tanks and leveled the playing field as much as they could. Save for DRK...it needs some love. That being said though I rarely ever have problem with enmity in dungeons, 24 man, 8 man, savage, or trials. You still have provoke and shirk, which is why they were left in the game for enmity management. The devs still like forcing tank swaps as mechanics or swapping tank busters.

I'm in the camp for good riddance to gradual enmity generation. Now tanks either have it or then don't. I'm free to tank how I want rather then stance dancing like an idiot as it was in SB....forget that crap. This also goes for the DPS, Mage classes. They can go balls out on there DPS and never worry....does anyone remember Diversion? Throttling the DPS is sort of silly, when you have DPS checks or enrages....kinda counter intuitive. Now DPS just goes nuts without ever pulling aggro as long as the tank isn't asleep.

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Dude, there are times were I WISH I still had enmity combos(as well wishing enmity combos were DPS neutral) because there is still the chance that the main tank is going to die because, once again either the main tank forgot to pop cooldowns, ate too many vuln stacks, the healer forgot to pay attention to the main tanks HP bar or was busy keeping a DPS alive, or any combination of those things I just listed.

If you don't like stance dancing or enmity combos, go play a DPS or healer.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

And if you didn't have tank stance on but you weren't second on enmity list, your main tank expected you to use enmity combos... Before the advent of Provoke + Shirk...

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Uh, no they didn't. The OT only touched their aggro combo if they were picking up an add. Even then, particularly aggressive Dark Knights and Warriors throughout Creator still grabbed adds without tank stance. If there was aggro issues due to lacking Shadewalker, the Warrior voked and turned on Defiance+Unchained. They didn't even have to use a Butcher's combo. Just a combo and an Equilibrium overheal was more than enough. You never used aggro combos as the OT.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Now everyone in the party are wondering why the off tank isn't second on enmity list because they get destroyed by the boss, and if your off tank isn't dead and they don't have tank stance on, it's time to bring back enmity combos... and DPS stances for good measure...

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There's no reason for anyone else to care about the aggro list. Either the boss targets both tanks, in which case keeping your stance on solves the issue. Or it doesn't and being second aggro makes no difference whatsoever. Bringing back enmity combos would lead to the situation they were in previously: completely ignored. If you made them DPS neutral, then they're glorified glamours that serve no purpose.

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Originally Posted by Magictrix

Why is drk's enmity gen so much less than other tanks? In a case where the drk has the same level gear, the other tanks will generate more enmity. In a case where the drk has slightly better gear, the other tanks will generate more enmity.

Why is this and can we get a buff or something at some point during this expansion?

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It has the same enmity modifiers as the other tanks, the other tanks just gain enmities by having:

1) More damage, or damage that is guaranteed crits(crits have an enmity mod of 1.1x enmity, so in tank stance 11x enmity)

2) More heals. At least for Gunbreaker and WAR, not only are their self heals going out as separate self heals during combos, but GNB has Aurora and WAR as Equilibrium. These both boost up enmity.

Unfortunately, if you want DRK to beat out another tank in raw enmity generation, you have to get really lucky with crits. My advice is, stop caring about it, and enjoy your lead in lower level content 60 and below. If you want to MT everything go on GNB, WAR, or PLD.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Uh, no they didn't. The OT only touched their aggro combo if they were picking up an add. Even then, particularly aggressive Dark Knights and Warriors throughout Creator still grabbed adds without tank stance. If there was aggro issues due to lacking Shadewalker, the Warrior voked and turned on Defiance+Unchained. They didn't even have to use a Butcher's combo. Just a combo and an Equilibrium overheal was more than enough. You never used aggro combos as the OT.

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Incorrect in a double WAR comp. And technically incorrect in comp with PLD before the Royal Authority combo switched over to Riot Blade.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Incorrect in a double WAR comp. And technically incorrect in comp with PLD before the Royal Authority combo switched over to Riot Blade.

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Perhaps in ARR days, which I cannot speak to readily as I only started in Heavensward. But once the DPS focused meta established itself late Gordias, the OT was not using aggro combos. Furthermore, double anything was not meta by that point thus is rather moot. And as you said, Paladin had their combo swapped to avoid aggro issues. By the time Creator came around, it wasn't uncommon to see tanks picking up adds without stance or aggro combos even if it meant letting the DPS eat an auto or two. They certainly weren't aggro combo-ing.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Perhaps in ARR days, which I cannot speak to readily as I only started in Heavensward. But once the DPS focused meta established itself late Gordias, the OT was not using aggro combos. Furthermore, double anything was not meta by that point thus is rather moot. And as you said, Paladin had their combo swapped to avoid aggro issues. By the time Creator came around, it wasn't uncommon to see tanks picking up adds without stance or aggro combos even if it meant letting the DPS eat an auto or two. They certainly weren't aggro combo-ing.

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He is technically right. If you didn't need to debuff the boss with Storm's Path and it wouldn't cause enmity issues you would use Butcher's because it simply had a higher potency, that was before the SB changes where Path gained you more "rage" than BB.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Imagine having a spammable 500 potency move that no other tank has as an OGCD and STILL losing threat lmfao. Okay.

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This thread is ? But this response in particular is ???

Okay. Imagine having a 920 pot auto crit and still losing aggro. Imagine having a high damage GCD+oGCD combo every 30sec, a 800 pot oGCD every 30 sec and a 20% Damage buff every minute and still losing aggro.

It turns out that individual skills doesn't matter because it's balanced around the entire kit and DRK is still lowest/2nd lowest rdps despite having a "cool spammable 500pot ogcd" *gasp*

DRK is stupidly high aggro generation. PLD has the worst enmity gen out of all of the tanks. GNB has 3 gcds, then they are limp in GF combo. DRK and WAR both have big, big burst early on that secures threat.

Maybe look up a proper opener? Like that's literally the only way you lose threat. I never lose threat when I tank because I know how to press buttons effectively. It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to lose threat to the other tank as long as you are doing optimal rotations and know how to play your job. I do savage reclears, farms, parse parties, w/e as a tank and have never, ever lost aggro to the other tank... I have played all four tanks religiously in savage content and ultimates. Not even in TWINTANIA where I was on a tank, had stance, dude was literally right behind me in aggro because the third death sentence shirk is down for both tanks... no aggro issues.

Like, I don't even know why these threads exist. It doesn't matter though, no one will accept the truth so it's kind of just pointless.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

GNB has 3 gcds, then they are limp in GF combo. DRK and WAR both have big, big burst early on that secures threat.

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I would say it's the other way around. GnB has 1-2 GCDs of barely any enmity generation depending on your opener (pulling with Lightning Shot gives you a slight edge but you often don't want to do that) and then it's GF burst starts, still not as much as DrK or War but certainly more than PLD.