Yes it's definitely OP's fault that the only way to get a house without breaking the ToS is to camp for potentially several hours while spam clicking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenky
Sure players do have a choice as to whether or not they engage in this, but the point is there could be a better system that doesn't infuriate people, give them a sense of hopelessness or drive them to break the ToS to get a house. Other games have better systems, why not this one as well?
What you're saying is akin to "it's your fault for playing that class" when someone complains their class is underpowered.
Deciding to not engage in something that is broken doesn't make it any less broken.
And seriously if your game has a feature or content that regularly drives people to break the ToS to engage in it then there is something very wrong with how it is designed.
Housing Market Demand Leading to Health Concerns
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08-02-2020, 12:03 AMPenthea
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08-02-2020, 01:41 AMDoozer
If you're so obsessed with getting a house in a video game that you'll neglect your health and potentially other real life responsibilities, you have more health problems than sleeping in shifts. See a therapist.
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08-02-2020, 02:37 AMKenkyWhile you are entirely correct, there is the knowledge that the current system was a rushed patch, because of the exploits people pulled in the past. I don't truly believe the current system is meant to be a PERMANENT solution. Just that they were going to change it and priorities were shifted to main-content focus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
We all want it to change, but we need it to change in a way that we have less loopholes in the system. (There'll never be no loopholes. Systems like that are worryingly complicated!) but the first step is to show we deserve that change.
Like in another post around here, we don't really have a mutual goal. We continue to ramble about how the current system is bad and needs to be changed, yet are fragmented in what we think is a "better" system. Most (if not all) of the suggestions have been with unforseen consequences and skew the odds ever in the bots favor. Not to mention we're constantly lashing out at each other (not everyone does it, but it's commonplace nonetheless..) for differing opinions and different stances on what is "acceptable". Personally I think the rise in 'hostilities' is probably a result of current events and people being affected BY those current events at wildly different levels.
But I stand by my point that I made almost a year ago now. SE is not at fault for the players choice that Virtual Items in a Virtual environment matter MORE to them than their own medical well-being. They don't really help things with their incentives, but it isn't a one-way street. The problem lays with the playerbase (mostly anyways.) and we, as a playerbase need to fix that. Or at the least, look out for each other and try to make people see reason.
There'll always be later. There'll always be a house waiting for you in the future. Don't burn yourself out and hurt yourself in the now, as you'll hinder your chances in the future. -
08-02-2020, 04:58 AMDrkdays1. How are we supposed to convince SE that we DESERVE anything apart from regularly paying them for a high-quality gaming experience? 2. I doubt SE has any reason to believe people would do anything other than savage each other over a limited resource. They surely aren't that surprised after years of it being like this...gamers fight. That's what we do. It's kind of the whole point. 3. There is no choice actually. Not really, apart from the whole "do or do not." SE has effectively erased free will in housing by making it such a specific and narrow and plain unkind chore to purchase a house. One could simply not even try, thus cutting out a large portion of the game that SE has poured so much time and money into making as appealing as possible, or they can damage themselves trying. There is real choice. The only part of that with which I can agree is the last part since more housing is coming, no doubt followed by the same issue. Gettem while they last...or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenky
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08-02-2020, 04:59 AMKayRadleyIf housing is that bloody important to you, why not go play one of those other games?Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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08-02-2020, 05:11 AMDrkdaysCrude argument. Telling someone you don't know to see a therapist because you don't understand or care to understand their values. Not that I would say health should come second to gaming (that's what this forum, and others, is trying to change, after all), but some things are worth fighting for for some people. That's the core message that SE needs to better understand, for everyone's sake. We all have a little Icarus in us. It's hard not to try for a little extra happiness, despite the obvious dangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doozer
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08-02-2020, 06:01 AMKenkyBy acting like actual adults, perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkdays
The sub we pay is simply allowing us to play the game. Nothing more. That's how it's been and that's how it always will be. We can't really say "Well, I pay a sub, so they should do what I say they should" because that just doesn't match up. As it currently stands, no. SE has no reason to believe we could be civil. Because, as it stands. We haven't been civil with each other from day one. That's what I think needs to change. It wouldn't do either party any good if we get a new housing system and it falls short because people are still ingrained into the "I'm the only one that matters" mentality, especially when FFXIV is meant to be an inviting community.
As for "no choice"? I mean, there is always a choice and it's not "Do or do not". Do you want a house? Go for it. Do you want a house so much that you hurt yourself over it? That's a bigger issue. I say this because there have been plenty of people that have essentially "wasted" entire days camping plots to finally get the house and realize that it's just not what they want. Or that they didn't get the feeling of satisfaction. It's why I've now been saying that, if you TRULY want a house, try an Apartment first.
Sure, it may be smaller and less of an item cap than a house, but at the same time, if you find out housing isn't what you want, the investment cost is a whole lot smaller with an apartment (500K if memory serves) instead of a house (4M min. + price-gouged house exteriors.) alongside the fact that you don't need to fight for the apartment. You just walk up, click a button. Boom, you has house.
I know that apartments don't have growbeds or workshops. But those can be given by joining an FC that has a house so you can give those a try. It's up to the FC in question on whether you get permission to fiddle with those, but you can make your case and I imagine people are considerate. I mean, if they're not using the growbeds, no harm will come with you using it, right?
Plus, it also helps if, during times of content drought, you're not going to feel like you have to log-in to keep your house, even when there's nothing in the game you want to be doing. Which, to many, isn't an issue. But to a minority, it certainly is. To the point of potentially feeling like you're wasting money. -
08-02-2020, 07:06 AMGallus
Sorry but you should never throw away your health like that. Under no circumstance you should be clicking a placard for 10 hours straight, that's not just physically devastating but mentally exhausting. Seriously, don't do it.
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08-02-2020, 08:24 AMPentheaIt appears that you think there is something wrong with asking for something to be better when it has been proven to be possible by devs for other games. How strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by KayRadley
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08-02-2020, 09:48 AMKayRadleyWhat's strange is that you don't simply play another game with better housing if that's so important to you. I can name you some titles, if they slip your mind. PSO2 comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea