Add DPS roles to Warrior ?

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Originally Posted by SamRF

The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well. Berserkers would be all about DPS, going in an all out frenzy hitting stuff as hard as you can with little other considerations, that's what I'd like to imagine when being a berserker. Tanks however are there to protect allies, use defensive abilities, soak damage and control the flow of battle (which is rather limited in FFXIV though). I think it goes without saying that this doesn't fit a furious berserker's aesthetic as wel as playstyle very well. MMOs that do offer a barbarian type of Tank seem to also have a berserker-like DPS variance more focused on the archetype I've just described.

And this is coming from a WAR main who has the bear mount so it's not that I particularly dislike tanking, I'd just love to have an all out berserker dps as well.

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That's funny, I don't remember such complaints when WAR was "zomg overpowered 8×fellcleave420blazeit". It's almost like there is a reoccurring theme with guaranteed slot classes in previous expansions getting all uppity that they actually have to compete now and all they can seem to come up with as a rejoinder is "muh job aesthetics" when they had no complaints about the aesthetics of the job beforehand.

Just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Razard

That's funny, I don't remember such complaints when WAR was "zomg overpowered 8×fellcleave420blazeit". It's almost like there is a reoccurring theme with guaranteed slot classes in previous expansions getting all uppity that they actually have to compete now and all they can seem to come up with as a rejoinder is "muh job aesthetics" when they had no complaints about the aesthetics of the job beforehand.

Just food for thought.

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I mean I kind of agree with this sentiment, but I don't see how that has anything to do with the person you're replying to.

WAR kind of is the odd man out of the tanks. PLD are literally high class body guards, DRK is about defending those who are trampled on by society, GNB also has roots in high class body guarding from what I remember.

WAR is about watching Curious Gorge mess up over and over again, I mean getting really mad and hitting people.

I'd love it if they ever add skill trees or something like that, I've had a paladin buddy main tank in a 4 man dungeon for me while I acted like I was a melee dps on war, it was pretty fun.

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Originally Posted by Razard

That's funny, I don't remember such complaints when WAR was "zomg overpowered 8×fellcleave420blazeit". It's almost like there is a reoccurring theme with guaranteed slot classes in previous expansions getting all uppity that they actually have to compete now and all they can seem to come up with as a rejoinder is "muh job aesthetics" when they had no complaints about the aesthetics of the job beforehand.

Just food for thought.

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Outside of like 3 posts I've only started posting on these forums since ShB so I might as well have expressed this desire earlier were I more active.

I didn't complain about current WAR, I'm expressing my desire for a non-tank berserker, a whole different job and I'm giving my reasoning for it. I'm not for turning current WAR into a dps, they can stay how they are. I'm for adding another DPS that fits the fury berserker archetype, as is evident in other posts I made earlier in this thread.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Why are you quoting me? What complaints? I didn't complain about current WAR, I'm expressing my desire for a non-tank berserker, a whole different job and I'm giving my reasoning for it. I'm not for turning current WAR into a dps, they can stay how they are. I'm for adding another DPS that fits the fury berserker archetype, as is evident in other posts I made earlier in this thread.

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I mean:

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The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well.

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Even though "Fury Berserker Warrior type" is the entire lore and aesthetic of the job. It's just about focusing it into a protective force rather than an indiscriminate destructive one. Besides what does such a theorectical class bring to the table in terms of gameplay, varety and lore that WAR doesn't? Other than higher numbers and a red icon.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Outside of like 3 posts I've only started posting on these forums since ShB so I might as well have expressed this desire earlier were I more active.

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Also lol, Whatever you say captain contrarian. No need to get defensive. I'm just giving you some Feedback ;).

More to the point, I was using your post as a vector to express a current malady of the forums as of late. You in particular may not have made this "complaint". But I have seen these sorts of feelings being expressed and then fall silent when thier place on the tier list falls then rises again. Look at Summoner for ready confirmation that any complaints about "Job Identity" go down the toilet after a good hard buffing. Apart from outlier weirdo's who think Egi Glamours should be a top priority (lol).

Just mulling through thoughts I guess.

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Originally Posted by Razard

I mean:

Even though "Fury Berserker Warrior type" is the entire lore and aesthetic of the job. It's just about focusing it into a protective force rather than an indiscriminate destructive one. Besides what does such a theorectical class bring to the table in terms of gameplay, varety and lore that WAR doesn't? Other than higher numbers and a red icon.

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Gameplay variety wise I think it can be done by making them a fast one handed dual wield berserker instead of big two handed. One with lower GCD like the other melee dps or with many oGCDs to the point they feel fast and brutal. Lore wise, keeping it Final Fantasy they could go with Viking perhaps? They seem to usually be tanks though in other FF games but perhaps wouldn't matter much if they rebrand it.

Just looked up and seems that some FF games also have distinct Berserker job. They could go with just "Berserker" and add some unique lore to it. It might fit with the Dalmascan?

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Originally Posted by Razard

Also lol, Whatever you say captain contrarian. No need to get defensive. I'm just giving you some Feedback ;).

More to the point, I was using your post as a vector to express a current malady of the forums as of late. You in particular may not have made this "complaint". But I have seen these sorts of feelings being expressed and then fall silent when thier place on the tier list falls then rises again. Look at Summoner for ready confirmation that any complaints about "Job Identity" go down the toilet after a good hard buffing. Apart from outlier weirdo's who think Egi Glamours should be a top priority (lol).

Just mulling through thoughts I guess.

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I see what you mean. I have only been active in FFXIV forums since Shb as I had said earlier so I wouldn't know if this is the case. If this were true I don't think the complaints have to be completely invalid though, it could very well be that the dissatisfaction with the job theme/aesthetic was always there but the fact that your job is OP or very well placed in meta trumps the theme dissatisfaction for some people and makes people tolerate it more and deem it less worthy of complaining, perhaps out of fear to lose the meta position.

Could also be a coincidence and/or faulty/biased correlation, idk.

...They used to be able to do that via Deliverance, but the idea of tank DPS stances aren't a thing anymore. We've come full circle now - most of you are asking for things you didn't like, to come back now because you realize they were good after all.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

...They used to be able to do that via Deliverance, but the idea of tank DPS stances aren't a thing anymore. We've come full circle now - most of you are asking for things you didn't like, to come back now because you realize they were good after all.

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Honestly, Tank gameplay boiled down to

>Have aggro

>Never use tank stance ever again

Stance dancing wasn't a thing at the end of Stormblood, and it's for the best that tank stances got canned.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well. Berserkers would be all about DPS, going in an all out frenzy hitting stuff as hard as you can with little other considerations, that's what I'd like to imagine when being a berserker. Tanks however are there to protect allies, use defensive abilities, soak damage and control the flow of battle (which is rather limited in FFXIV though). I think it goes without saying that this doesn't fit a furious berserker's aesthetic as wel as playstyle very well. MMOs that do offer a barbarian type of Tank seem to also have a berserker-like DPS variance more focused on the archetype I've just described.

And this is coming from a WAR main who has the bear mount so it's not that I particularly dislike tanking, I'd just love to have an all out berserker dps as well.

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I mean, for what it's worth, Berserker in DnD was a tank in 4E, at least partially. I'm not sure on the exact specifics of how it worked but given part of how Berserkers work is continuing to power forward even if they're injured and drawing a lot of attention in so doing I can see how it works perfectly fine as a tank. Tanking doesn't have to mean super protective and more just "biggest threat and able to handle the heat".

As far as the proposed solution, while I would definitely be on board with some sort of DPS swap for all non DPS and a Tank/Healer/Support swap for all existing DPS I don't really see it happening.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I mean, for what it's worth, Berserker in DnD was a tank in 4E, at least partially. I'm not sure on the exact specifics of how it worked but given part of how Berserkers work is continuing to power forward even if they're injured and drawing a lot of attention in so doing I can see how it works perfectly fine as a tank. Tanking doesn't have to mean super protective and more just "biggest threat and able to handle the heat".

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I think most (MMO)RPGs have a berserker type of class as Tank, and I get why and how that works. There's usually one or multiple dps variances too though and that's what imo is missing in this game, for the reasons I've described in that post. Monk is the closest thing in this game when it comes to that, but the mystic shaolin kung fu theme kind of ruins the resemblance (as it should, being a Monk). All the other Melee dps are more "precision" strikers.