Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

I try to mind my own business, especially in normal content considering that I do good enough damage to where it's not really much of a concern if 1 or 2 people are slacking, but when things die super slowly or we don't hit dps checks, I see no issues with using a parser to check who the problem person or people are.

This game is based around GROUP content not single player content, so the contributions of everyone should be considered and the people who aren't contributing enough should be addressed, not in a toxic manner, but something needs to be said to them.

I mean if you join a static you'll get kicked out pretty quickly if you can only pull 8k on BLM on E1S, everyone has their jobs and if your job is to do damage and you can't even do that well, then you don't belong in the content.

There is anything new. Yoshida talked about it as a reminder. His stance on it remains the same for a long time.

Tbh.
He is right honestly.
His example of what people would do is pretty accurate if we had a parse tool.
People would demand you pull a certain amount of dps in pf.

Some people would probably kick you because they think you're not doing enough because you're not pulling what a SR group gotten.

People can do the mental gymnastics all they want on why being official will be a good thing ,but the fact is the game will be more toxic if parsing was in the game officially.

People would openly mock your dps because everybody can see it.
You can say "well they need to get good" but some people generally are trying but can't reach that expectation.

Seeing their low dps would just be demoralizing to certain people and they would probably quit or feel really bad about themselves.

I know a lot of people that try to get better but just are not able.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Yeah, instead of being able to tell someone where and why they're messing up, or just that they're messing up in general, you just have to shut up and deal with the ninja pulling 3k dps or kick them and just say "difference in play styles bro" so they don't know they need to improve. It's a dumb system and actually encourages more toxicity, because you can't communicate with people because doing so is you admitting you're using tools you shouldn't be.

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Or you can say in a general sense that the DPS check was not being met, and encourage people to check themselves at the Stone Sea Sky/Lawns to make sure they're able to complete the content without having to single one person out.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

YoshiP is a former WoW enthusiast, so no wonder why he is against the DPS meters.

But one thing does not let me go, if they are so against it why are they making savage content so dependent on good DPS then? Smells like elephant big contradiction isnt it? Why design a activity that has a real DPS "timer" in it if they are punishing people for calling out someone for the low dps?

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Savage fights are designed with the intention that to pass them, everyone has to do their job well. This is why there's a DPS check. If you fail it, it means your DPS weren't doing their job. Same with the way that bosses have to be positioned by tanks, cool downs have to be timed out, healing checks exist, etc etc. Everyone has a job to do, and you won't pass if too many people aren't doing it.

The problem as I've experienced it isn't savage raiding, but extreme primal where you can get away with more people failing to perform as well, yet people still will expect that everyone be playing at a higher level, and then kick those they think aren't living up to their expectations.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Tbh.
He is right honestly.
His example of what people would do is pretty accurate if we had a parse tool.
People would demand you pull a certain amount of dps in pf.

Some people would probably kick you because they think you're not doing enough because you're not pulling what a SR group gotten.

People can do the mental gymnastics all they want on why being official will be a good thing ,but the fact is the game will be more toxic if parsing was in the game officially.

People would openly mock your dps because everybody can see it.
You can say "well they need to get good" but some people generally are trying but can't reach that expectation.

Seeing their low dps would just be demoralizing to certain people and they would probably quit or feel really bad about themselves.

I know a lot of people that try to get better but just are not able.

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The idea there would be a rampart increase in toxicity is nonsense. Initially? Sure. But if SE did their due diligence and banned the players who genuinely harassed others, things would inevitably settle down.

And what does it matter if people put requirements to join their parties. No one is entitled to clear. If parsers were allowed publicly and I asked for players above 80%. Why isn't that okay? I'm not being rude about it. I simply want a specific skill range to clear this particular fight faster for whatever reason. People already do this now; either outright putting "parse run" in the PF description or something like "kill before Quietus/Black Smokers." If you join those parties and aren't able to keep up, people have a right to be upset with you. Now that doesn't mean they should threaten you or say something like "pls uninstall". But someone their damage is too low isn't harassment.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Or you can say in a general sense that the DPS check was not being met, and encourage people to check themselves at the Stone Sea Sky/Lawns to make sure they're able to complete the content without having to single one person out.

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And what if it's a single person holding the group back? Why do we have to dance around the subject because Billy can't handle being told his DPS is too low for E4S.

Agreed! In fact, I think Yoshi and the team need to get harder on things. Make it so the game checks for mods and bans any kind of modder. Parsing and other third party add-ons related to gameplay help promote elitism and make the community toxic. Just look at that Twitch streamer that publicly shamed an innocent player! We don't need that here. If somebody has a bad parse, you are NOT entitled to know about it. Players have a right to "suck" at content. They might be having difficulty because they're new to the content and still learning it. Not everybody wants to obsessively read a guide spoil things for themselves.

If you're playing with a lesser skilled player and don't want to be patient and encouraging, might I recommend making your own private party?

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Originally Posted by SolisClarah

Agreed! In fact, I think Yoshi and the team need to get harder on things. Make it so the game checks for mods and bans any kind of modder.

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That would be illegal in certain countries. Yoshi-P said as much himself during the Live Letter.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Tbh.
He is right honestly.
His example of what people would do is pretty accurate if we had a parse tool.

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My Expert Roulette last night was an in-progress Akadaemia run—about five minutes in, maybe slightly more. I zone in and greet the party, ask what's up. They mention their previous healer had told them their DPS numbers weren't high enough, and then ragequit on them. A party of three folks in Akadaemia for their second time ever. :/

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The idea there would be a rampart increase in toxicity is nonsense. Initially? Sure. But if SE did their due diligence and banned the players who genuinely harassed others, things would inevitably settle down.

And what does it matter if people put requirements to join their parties. No one is entitled to clear. If parsers were allowed publicly and I asked for players above 80%. Why isn't that okay? I'm not being rude about it. I simply want a specific skill range to clear this particular fight faster for whatever reason. People already do this now; either outright putting "parse run" in the PF description or something like "kill before Quietus/Black Smokers." If you join those parties and aren't able to keep up, people have a right to be upset with you. Now that doesn't mean they should threaten you or say something like "pls uninstall". But someone their damage is too low isn't harassment.



And what if it's a single person holding the group back? Why do we have to dance around the subject because Billy can't handle being told his DPS is too low for E4S.

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That's just the thing though. Sure you can Ask for that but then what if everybody or a vast majority starts asking for that? You end up locking out a ton of players and that wouldn't be fun for anybody but people that have statics or get lucky with high skilled pugs.
Then there are players that CAN get a 80 or higher percentile but can't because they pug, and get healers that let them die or tanks and other problems in their pug runs that's not their fault.

I mean...look at it in someone else shoes and don't give me that BS "Well I'll try to improve and get a better parse" How would you like if everybody is setting these very high standards which you know you can get but can't because all those bad pugs.
Tanks have it the worst since they're the most valuable to dying due to the healers.
I know some very skilled Tanks but they always have a bunch of greens and blues because they die from lack of healing.

All I'm saying is if you were a samurai in stormblood(mid stormblood), just imagine that but for everybody that's not a high purple parse. No matter how good I was, nobody wanted my job and it was VERY hard for me to find a group that lets my job in.

Don't get me wrong. I know this sorta happens already but an official parse would just make it worst since at least now, People can't demand that kind of requirement(At least openly) giving people at least a chance.