Can I report people for buying multiple houses?

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Just a guess, but I think it was probably because it broke the system that transfers an FC when the leader doesn't log in for 35 days.

Either it stopped it working if someone already had an alt that was in an FC with a house, or it didn't stop it working so people would have used that as a workaround/bypassed it so SE thought what's the point.

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I wasn't aware that the restriction broke anything.

I don't like that the solution to this is just to remove the restriction because that's essentially replacing one problem with another. But anyone who knows a lot about housing knows that SE don't exactly rank it high up on their list of things to improve. So I'm not surprised if that is what happened.

And before anyone says the restriction needed to be removed for the fc leader mechanic would work; SE could just change how that mechanic works.

For example the leadership could get automatically passed on to someone without leadership of a fc house on that server. In the event that no one in the fc is eligible due to every member being a fc leader on that server on another character, then the first player could get notified that if they relinquish leadership elsewhere they will become eligible to take on the leader role in that fc. They have, let's say, a two week window to redeem the fc and if they do not, then the next player gets the same option and so on.

SE could have both systems work fine. But well...they need to care enough about the housing system to do that. And they do not.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I wasn't aware that the restriction broke anything.

I don't like that the solution to this is just to remove the restriction because that's essentially replacing one problem with another. But anyone who knows a lot about housing knows that SE don't exactly rank it high up on their list of things to improve. So I'm not surprised if that is what happened.

And before anyone says the restriction needed to be removed for the fc leader mechanic would work; SE could just change how that mechanic works.

For example the leadership could get automatically passed on to someone without leadership of a fc house on that server. In the event that no one in the fc is eligible due to every member being a fc leader on that server on another character, then the first player could get notified that if they relinquish leadership elsewhere they will become eligible to take on the leader role in that fc. They have, let's say, a two week window to redeem the fc and if they do not, then the next player gets the same option and so on.

SE could have both systems work fine. But well...they need to care enough about the housing system to do that. And they do not.

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They do care about the housing system. We wouldn't get all the changes we get each expansion is they didn't. But that doesn't mean they have all the time and resources needed to make all desired improvements to the system.

Perhaps what they need to do is state that a player cannot lead more than one FC per world. If the player has a character that already leads a FC, their other characters may not start a new FC or be promoted to leader in another one they join unless they step down as leader on the other character first. It's highly unlikely any legitimate FC would have no members eligible for promotion.

One thing I'm finding interesting is that SE did update the housing information page on Lodestone back in October. It does still clearly state that a player is only allowed to own one personal and one FC house per world per service account. That runs counter to all the player claims that SE removed the ownership rules and left only the purchase rule in place.

SE may not be able to use programming to prevent the additional purchase but that shouldn't prevent the GMs from manually enforcing that rule where there is evidence a player is abusing the system to gain access to multiple houses.

They updated the housing guide because they added new wards, period. This doesn't counter what I and other members have been repeating for two years.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They do care about the housing system.

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I didn't say they don't care. I said they don't care enough.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

We wouldn't get all the changes we get each expansion is they didn't.

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The only reason why we got some big changes to the system in SB is because there was an enormous uproar in the community when Shirogane launched. I seriously doubt we would have had those changes if no one complained. If SE planned to bring them in all along they would have introduced them BEFORE launching a new housing area, not after.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But that doesn't mean they have all the time and resources needed to make all desired improvements to the system.

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While I agree with this very often some good changes people request aren't complicated. I'm not under the illusion that any company reacts to all the whims of the playerbase but when you see other systems consistently get updates and/or changes, while another one does very infrequently by comparison, it is clear that SE have a list of priorities which don't have housing anywhere near the top.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Perhaps what they need to do is state that a player cannot lead more than one FC per world. If the player has a character that already leads a FC, their other characters may not start a new FC or be promoted to leader in another one they join unless they step down as leader on the other character first. It's highly unlikely any legitimate FC would have no members eligible for promotion.

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Completely agree that something like this should be in the game.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

One thing I'm finding interesting is that SE did update the housing information page on Lodestone back in October. It does still clearly state that a player is only allowed to own one personal and one FC house per world per service account. That runs counter to all the player claims that SE removed the ownership rules and left only the purchase rule in place.

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And here's another reason why I am annoyed with how SE ranks housing in their to-do list. Many players over the course of far more than a year by now have said this to be the case. Some have been saying that the restriction getting removed has lead to them personally, or other players they're aware of, be able to buy more houses than the housing page on the Lodestone says they can purchase. I myself have seen some purchasing habits that point to the restriction getting lifted.

...but SE haven't updated the lodestone guide on housing. Which honestly makes it look like SE know the restriction being removed is bad, and they're hoping no one will notice it's gone as long as they don't have any official statement about it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

SE may not be able to use programming to prevent the additional purchase but that shouldn't prevent the GMs from manually enforcing that rule where there is evidence a player is abusing the system to gain access to multiple houses.

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If the house abuse entails only activity that doesn't violate the ToS, 99% of the time SE will do nothing. At best they might do something if the house hoarder is being very rude to other people, but in that case they would be getting punished for harassment, not for finding loopholes in the housing system that don't break the ToS.

Honestly I don't think we'll see any major improvements to the fairness of the housing system unless we have another fiasco like the Shirogane launch. It's not impossible that we'll get some without an unhappy playerbase pushing SE to act, but looking at the past that really does not seem likely.

Most of the ideas here except the most drastic like only being able to join one FC per world will not work. As a FC leader I instantly thought up of how to bypass most of the suggestions made.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Most of the ideas here except the most drastic like only being able to join one FC per world will not work. As a FC leader I instantly thought up of how to bypass most of the suggestions made.

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The easiest way to bypass any limitations is to buy multiple service accounts, which some players have already done. Otherwise, there will be ways to get more houses than intended if the system is reliant on automated enforcement since any programming needs to be flexible enough to make certain legitimate FCs aren't prevented from getting/retaining a FC house.

But just because the system doesn't prevent something happen doesn't mean it's within the rules. That's when human oversight has to step in and ask "is this player exploiting the system to obtain more than the development team intends".

It's up to SE to decide if they're going to enforce the rules. So far, they don't seem to be interested in doing so. That is not a good thing since it leads to players who like to cheat/exploit testing what other parts of the game they can start exploiting without being punished.

This entire, ENTIRE topic is pointless.

There was a reddit post about a player that bought 60 plots on Spriggan, then they went to a GM to tell on themselves and a GM told them buying multiple houses is not against the TOS because if there is a in-game way to do it, it's allowed.

https://twitter.com/SakuyaMikami/sta...54715158781954

If a GM isn't going to take a report directly from someone telling on themselves about buying 60 plots, then stop wasting OF time complaining about it.

SE isn't doing anything about it, they aren't restricting it and GMs are basically saying "go for it, we have nothing to do with this."

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Originally Posted by LuciferNacht

This entire, ENTIRE topic is pointless.

There was a reddit post about a player that bought 60 plots on Spriggan, then they went to a GM to tell on themselves and a GM told them buying multiple houses is not against the TOS because if there is a in-game way to do it, it's allowed.

https://twitter.com/SakuyaMikami/sta...54715158781954

If a GM isn't going to take a report directly from someone telling on themselves about buying 60 plots, then stop wasting OF time complaining about it.

SE isn't doing anything about it, they aren't restricting it and GMs are basically saying "go for it, we have nothing to do with this."

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Reread the conversation more carefully. All the GM is saying is that whatever the poster was inquiring about falls outside the scope of GM responsibilities to clarify or address.

The GM repeated it several times.

GMs are not an all powerful enforcement department. They have a specific set of issues they're allowed to address.
https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68093

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GMs will assist with the following types of issues:
•Harassment
•Inappropriate Behavior
•Activities that affect game balance
•Real Money Transactions (RMT)/RMT Solicitation
•Impersonation
•Grief Tactics
•Item Reimbursement

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They can't advise players on things outside of those issues beyond stating "do it at your own risk".

Exploits of the housing system don't fall into any of those categories (the link at the end of the article gives a better description of what they mean by "activities that affect game balance") yet it doesn't mean that it's allowed. It's just not something the GMs handle.

The question becomes who does handle it so players can report it to the correct team that will investigate. The article that clarifies prohibited activities does include a "misuse of flaws" category, which multiple FC house ownership would fall under. It unfortunately doesn't state where players should report them.

Does it need to get reported to the Special Task Force? The support article says they handle "illegal activities" then lists RMT and third party programs as examples though doesn't say it's limited to those specific things. It does feel like their focus is on things outside of FFXIV that get used to disrupt balance within the game as opposed to exploiting flaws in the game.

So who do we appeal to in order to get the situation address? Do we need to appeal directly to YoshiP as we watch more and more players exploiting the system to own multiple FC houses and cut other players out of getting a house?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But just because the system doesn't prevent something happen doesn't mean it's within the rules.

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I feel it's fair to point out that it also doesn't mean it's against the rules either.

When Square Enix initially added housing they didn't have any limitations on how many houses you could own. If they wanted to limit it they could have done that. I even remember at the time the wording on housing saying about it was per character, not per account.

Four years later they added in the purchase restrictions, although personally I think that was more because we as a community forced them to, not because they actually wanted to do it. SE has always said the restrictions were temporary and this was demonstrated when they removed the restriction on FC purchases not long after actually adding them. Maybe it caused problems with something else, but that was still their choice not to restrict FC purchases and they don't seem interested in putting them back again. Why they've never updated the housing site I have no idea as right now it's just confusing, but then since most people probably never see that site, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Also, additional evidence that they aren't bothered is when the initial restrictions came in they grandfathered in anyone with multiple houses and said no action would be taken against them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's up to SE to decide if they're going to enforce the rules. So far, they don't seem to be interested in doing so.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So who do we appeal to in order to get the situation address?

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I think you've basically answered your own question. SE don't see it as being against their rules and like the GM said, the game lets you do it. If they didn't want you to do it, they would change it. Things like being able to friend your own alts is a good example of how they react when something happens they don't like. Both times that has come up SE rushed out a patch within days. Having multiple FC housing on a single account has been around literally years.

Anyone who wants to purchase multiple FC housing is free to do so as no part of the game says they're not allowed to. The only things that says it's not allowed is an outdated housing website that isn't even linked in-game and even then those restrictions were under "temporary restrictions".

I'm sorry that this isn't the answer you want.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So who do we appeal to in order to get the situation address? Do we need to appeal directly to YoshiP as we watch more and more players exploiting the system to own multiple FC houses and cut other players out of getting a house?

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Looking at history, the only thing that will work is another massive storm of discontent on the scale of the Shirogane launch.

Up to that point the only change that was brought in to discourage hoarding was demolition, and the intention was more about preventing inactive accounts from keeping houses as opposed to active accounts keeping many houses. Also it took literally years for that to be brought in, even though the issues surrounding the availability of houses were very clear long before then.

So basically I think the next time we can look forward to any decisive changes to house acquisition is when Ishgard housing launches. And that is assuming said launch is also a disaster. If not, then I don't think we'll see any real changes.

Maybe SE will surprise us, but I'm not counting on it.

In short: it's not who we appeal to, it's how many of us do it.