Is 'Hydaelyn' a misnomer based on a misconception?

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Parts of the city may have been illusion, but the ruins in the surrounding area are of Amaurotian origins, as are the ruins the Ondo live in.

It is likely Emet used the ruins of an actual Amaurotian city as the base of his illusion. Not sure if it was ever outright stated if it IS the ruined city of Amaurot itself though, but its probable.

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Ah those ruins, you are half right.

The ruins you encounter in the end game are not Amaurotine in origin, at least not how you think. In truth, they were created by someone who had fleeting memories of the original star. The same thing exists in the Ronkan Ruins and was elaborated upon by the developers. We dont actually encounter anything from the original star, just the facsimile created by Emet-Selch. The ruins are of First Origins.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Indeed, the city even "recognises the WoL" when you first get there. If the city was a complete illusion born of the mind of Emet Selch then there would be no reason why he would imagine his creations to recognise the player having Ascian heritage because he was unaware of it until his end.

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That's not exactly what happens. Emet-Selch invited us, so why wouldn't it recognize our unique signature. Plus you might be confusing what the Ascian heritage means. In your context you're talking about us being a member of the council, but truthfully, all of the races have "Ascian heritage" as we were all unified beings at one point. This much Emet-Selch did know. The only difference is any being from the source is more "complete"

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Ah those ruins, you are half right.

The ruins you encounter in the end game are not Amaurotine in origin, at least not how you think. In truth, they were created by someone who had fleeting memories of the original star. The same thing exists in the Ronkan Ruins and was elaborated upon by the developers. We dont actually encounter anything from the original star, just the facsimile created by Emet-Selch. The ruins are of First Origins.

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Citation needed.

The ruins are clearly stated to be built by "Ancients" with unkown and non-reproducible means. The technology used is stated to be very high above anything the Ondo or the Scions could imagine, or even put a dent in. Its pretty clear that the ruins are not of Ronkan origin, who were to our knowledge the most advanced faction of the First (and remember they did not have any Calamities, so they have better recollection of their history and ruins).

It is also stated by the Ondo, that they associate the ruins they use and the ruins that "lit up" by the return of the ancients.

The murals in the Ronkan ruins are of a different matter. They were clearly constructed by the Ronkans or their predecessors post Sundering, to record the fleeting memories of the pre Sundered world... and it was stated as such by non other than Emet too.

And the design of the buildings in said mural outright matches the ruins in The Tempest, and it was that mural that Emet actually confirmed really was of Amaurot and the Terminus (it was the first time we actually heard the name mentioned). And the WoL actually matches a distinctive structure in that mural at the end of the game with one of the ruins in The Tempest, that strange vaguely open pyramidal structure called 'The Walls of the Forgotten' on the map.

Having said that, it's still unclear if Emet's reconstruction of Amaurot was built 'from the ground up' with his Creation magic or was simply a glamour laid over the empty ruins like a tablecloth, but what is clear is that the ruins in The Tempest are the remains of Amaurot (a big clue is the distinctive 'zigzag brickwork-in-concrete' pattern on the ruins... is identical to the buildings in the reconstruction... albiet without 12000 years worth of coral and rock formations on them. ;)).

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Citation needed.

The ruins are clearly stated to be built by "Ancients" with unkown and non-reproducible means. The technology used is stated to be very high above anything the Ondo or the Scions could imagine, or even put a dent in. Its pretty clear that the ruins are not of Ronkan origin, who were to our knowledge the most advanced faction of the First (and remember they did not have any Calamities, so they have better recollection of their history and ruins).

It is also stated by the Ondo, that they associate the ruins they use and the ruins that "lit up" by the return of the ancients.

The murals in the Ronkan ruins are of a different matter. They were clearly constructed by the Ronkans or their predecessors post Sundering, to record the fleeting memories of the pre Sundered world... and it was stated as such by non other than Emet too.

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I'd have to look for the Q&A where they said it. But I'll admit I could be mixing up info. What I am talking about were the murals as you indicated, I wasn't trying to indicate the ruins were of Ronkan origin either.

I did see something that indicated the ruins are genuine because of a lack of calamities, as you indicated, but that's not a prime source for information. I could be relating actual info the dev's have said and stretching it to this concept. So unless we have a prime source for either, the confirmation is up in the air.

My main reason behind thinking the ruins aren't genuine is because the timing doesn't add up. Amaurot was destroyed prior to summoning Zodiark. Between his summoning, the planets "restoration", Hydaelyn's summoning, and their battles, a significant amount of time should have passed. Now while ruins don't just "vanish", for them to remain after a reconstruction effort is put in place seems odd. But that reasoning is only speculation, the same as everyone else's. So we'll just have to wait for the dev's to say something.

That being said, having something "built by the ancients" doesn't necessarily mean the Ascians. Our own world history shows things from our past that were created by unknown and non-reproducible means.

as for the initial topic: We indeed don't know what the ancients called the planet before the terminus (it's entirely possible though that they did literally just call it the star, after all Earth isn't that imaginative of a name either). Zodiark was created as "the will of the star" itself, so he and the planet became synonymous. And later our mommy crystal took over that role after banishing Zodiark.
So yes, Hydaelin is the planet.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

What Amaurotine city are you referencing, because we visit no such thing on the first. The only thing we visit is an illusion. As for the name Hydaelyn. I think it's a simple case of history is written by the Victor. Hydaelyn "won" so the star is called Hydaelyn.

As for the star's original name, let's either call it Genesis or Termina. Either we call it the beginning or the end, lol.

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I am referencing the ruins in the Tempest which are clearly the ruins of Amaurot as the WoL discusses with Y'shtola ...

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Originally Posted by Elladie

I am referencing the ruins in the Tempest which are clearly the ruins of Amaurot as the WoL discusses with Y'shtola ...

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Yes, I see that now.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

as for the initial topic: We indeed don't know what the ancients called the planet before the terminus (it's entirely possible though that they did literally just call it the star, after all Earth isn't that imaginative of a name either). Zodiark was created as "the will of the star" itself, so he and the planet became synonymous. And later our mommy crystal took over that role after banishing Zodiark.
So yes, Hydaelin is the planet.

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Not to me she isn't! :P Hydaelyn seems like a usurper—as Eloah said, it most resembles a case of the victor writing the rules—of this synonymy, if anything. Though I also have my doubts about Zodiark embodying "the will of the star." I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the star has no will, and that Zodiark embodied nothing more than the will of a people desperate to survive at any cost. They are, after all, both Primals, and I'm always apt to believe that any positive PR for either one of them is born of tempering.

The Ancients or, more specifically, the Amauoritines, remind me a lot of the Krell from Forbidden Planet, or the Atlanteans: a race so physically adept that they are able to give form to powerful entities/forces that prove to be their undoing. Sulky Selch makes it sound like the horrors of the Terminus event just befell his blameless people for reasons unknown, but I suspect that what we have here is a very literal imagining of the sleep of reason giving birth to monsters. So, from my vantage point, Zodiark and Hydaelyn are just monsters called forth to deal with other monsters, and the star is just a big rock that doesn't have much of anything to do with either of them.

I'm also very curious as to what the original planet was called before Zodiark and Hydaelyn entered the equation. I think it'd be very poetic for the truth surrounding Zodiark and Hydaelyn to become common knowledge and for the reigns of history to truly be placed into the hands of man. There's something rather egotistical about the Source being named 'Hydaelyn' in light of all her deception surrounding her true nature. She had many convinced that she was a benevolent deity and yet as it turns out she is simply another Primal. A very powerful one, certainly, but a Primal all the same.

I still think Emet calling Zodiark and Hydaelyn primals was a deliberate mislead by him. Sure, creation magic and primal summoning follow the same principle on paper, but in practice it's like comparing a masterfully crafted piece of artisanship with some cheap bootleg that only barely resembles the original and will set itself on fire if looked at the wrong way. Also if mommy and daddy crystal were primals, then logically ALL of the countless plants and animals originating from creation magic would have to be primals as well, no?
(As for the ascians getting tempered, this might've simply been an unintended side effect of Zodiark stopping the terminus. After all, a big part was the chain reaction of the mass hysteria amongst the ancients creating more monsters, so Zodiark might've simply decided that ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL via tempering as a way to stop that)