The arms race between BLM and SMN

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

It's getting to the point I almost want them to drop Raise entirely from the Casters, thus allowing Summoner and Red Mage to simply be the Caster equivalent to Monk and Dragoon. They just can't seem to balance around it.

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Or simply stop considering "Raise" a utility in a DPS-centric game. It's not, it's a progression tool at the best of times.

Personally, I'd say give RDM's VerRaise a rework: make it oGCD, make it instant, make it cost no MP and slap a 15 second cooldown on it and/or give it charges. If raising is part of its identity, make it strong or, at least, enticing to use.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

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Because they already do balance around it. They've admitted as much to us when people have asked why RDM in particular had such poor DPS compared to SMN and to a lesser extent BLM. It's also why BRD was nerfed recently when they got some of their raid utility back. Utility = lower damage numbers in this MMO sadly, or at least that's how the balance team tends to think it should work.

SMN is too complicated/annoying for me to play so I almost certainly would do a poorer job on it compared to BLM.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say my input on this subject probably wouldn't be too valuable as a result.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Because they already do balance around it. They've admitted as much to us when people have asked why RDM in particular had such poor DPS compared to SMN and to a lesser extent BLM. It's also why BRD was nerfed recently when they got some of their raid utility back. Utility = lower damage numbers in this MMO sadly, or at least that's how the balance team tends to think it should work.

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Well, that's a very silly stance for them to have. It's not like people raise from K.O. without weakness. After so many downs, you're just going to hit the fight's enrage. Hardly a great utility to call for a class's damage to be neutered.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Well, that's a very silly stance for them to have. It's not like people raise from K.O. without weakness. After so many downs, you're just going to hit the fight's enrage. Hardly a great utility to call for a class's damage to be neutered.

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Oh believe me I agree, but that's very much sadly the official stance on the matter.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Or simply stop considering "Raise" a utility in a DPS-centric game.

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That's because a dead DPS produces 0 DPS.

Some patches SMN is “ahead” and other patches BLM is “ahead.” I have sympathy for BLM (or any other) players if they are excluded from some raid groups but the root cause is raid groups that refuse any “non-optimal” party comp - even though all jobs are viable if people do the mechanics and maintain their dps rotations. It is an essentially unavoidable situation, but hopefully one that won’t prevent BLM (or BRD, etc.) players from raiding.

Nothing wrong with SMN - it is a fun job and even better with Bahamut and Phoenix.

However, BLM is my favorite FF job and Yoshi-p and I are going to keep playing BLM regardless of where it stands on fflogs.

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Originally Posted by linay

That's because a dead DPS produces 0 DPS.

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You're missing my point.

A Dead DPS does 0 damage, sure, while a RDM that eats their dualcast to raise loses a potential of 580 potency to bring back another that will also suffer a 25%, or 50%, stat reduction while also having lower damage potential to SMN (who can also raise and loses maybe 350 damage potency if they use Swiftcast for Ruin III to gain another WyrmWave). Not to mention with every VerRaise you use, your burst gets pushed back (something SMN doesn't suffer from), so it has a long term effect on RDM.

That's just considering the casters. Healers can also raise, though many refuse to outside of swiftcast ("It takes too long to cast" while getting 3 or 4 Glares/Broil IIIs or Malefic IV without moving, which is how long it takes to cast Raise).

Basically, the dead DPS do 0 DPS is a terrible argument.

Now, if VerRaise could raise a DPS with no weakness, well, that would be worth the neutered DPS. However, even that is only as good as people mess up and die - in a party with no deaths, and therefore, no raises, you just have a weaker DPS compared to its counterparts.

Make triplecast into non cast for 1 minute buff so we can move around freely and land 100k crit 100% gurantee with foul.

At this point caster is just no longer a role I can deal with lol, while I like being able to do real dps opposed to our pathetic dps before 5.1, I do think BLM should be ahead but not so far ahead as it was in pre 5.1 and buff RDM for Christ sake and I stand by my statement that “Raise” should ultimately be a caster role ability or either removed since SE cannot balance our most problematic role.