Everyone's talking about smn buffs. But what about mch

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Originally Posted by Sora_Oathkeeper

all they could offer to the others low parsing jobs were between 500-800 dps. The balancing these devs do in this game is so inconsistent at times.

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*moves his bard into the corner and silently weeps looking at levi parses...*

edit: bard (all bosses) at 95 percentile gained 137 dps---

https://i.ibb.co/6RLn764/zzz.png

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Originally Posted by Sora_Oathkeeper

Other jobs also have that same spike in damage. That's why it's better to compare the upper parses from people who have best in slot gear so that the gear discrepancy is at a minimum.

Either way, the facts right now are that ranged are still miles behind despite their buffs. They needed around 8-10% before 5.1 to be within 500dps of the melee. Which is a good spot i think. The devs slacked on the buffs though and i'm unsure exactly why they are so scared to buff them higher. Maybe at the lower percentiles having mobility is a benefit but at the top end everyone's mobility and uptime is near enough the same and planned around. Regardless however, ranged (and rdm) still need to be brought up more. A small mobility tax is warranted yes, but it shouldn't be as detrimental as it. I'm still unsure how SMN escaped the rez tax and gained nearly 1.5k from buffs in 5.1 but all they could offer to the others low parsing jobs were between 500-800 dps. The balancing these devs do in this game is so inconsistent at times.

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Because mobility tax shouldn't exist. I'll take an example: the ranged will do mechanics to allow the melee or caster to keep their uptime, leading to us doing more mechanics than any of them. Ifrit nails/eruption bait in uwu is an example. While we bait the eruptions (or liquid fire on ucob etc), they are not doing anything different, and -we- lose dps because we do more than them to allow them to keep their uptime?
i'm pretty sure making a melee or a caster do the same bait, they will still have more dps than a ranged.

The same way a rez tax is pointless, the "tax" is already in the rez, you basically fuck 3 GCD, misalign your rotation, and if you use swiftcast as a smn it kind of sh*t on your bahamut rotation or you have to ruin II in it.

All jobs should have the same rdps, and the choice of job should just depend of the person's preference

Ranged shouldn’t have the same rDPS as melee or casters without a sufficiently complex rotation that requires proper execution to compensate. Being support and burst window oriented is fine. Being easy and free is not. I’m more concerned about SE’s overall dumbing down of jobs than the ranged tax. Numbers are easy to fix, but simplifying things does no one any favours long term.

Could be worse. You could be a dancer and have your DPS nerfed by group, partner or RNG. Nothing like going 2 full min without a feather or snail esprit fill

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Originally Posted by Aiscence

Because mobility tax shouldn't exist. I'll take an example: the ranged will do mechanics to allow the melee or caster to keep their uptime, leading to us doing more mechanics than any of them. Ifrit nails/eruption bait in uwu is an example. While we bait the eruptions (or liquid fire on ucob etc), they are not doing anything different, and -we- lose dps because we do more than them to allow them to keep their uptime?
i'm pretty sure making a melee or a caster do the same bait, they will still have more dps than a ranged.

The same way a rez tax is pointless, the "tax" is already in the rez, you basically fuck 3 GCD, misalign your rotation, and if you use swiftcast as a smn it kind of sh*t on your bahamut rotation or you have to ruin II in it.

All jobs should have the same rdps, and the choice of job should just depend of the person's preference

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When i'm talking a small mobility tax i'm talking like maybe 100dps if that, that's about what a melee would lose from missing 2-3 gcds in times of forced missed gcds. Overall I do agree with you though, regarding smn specifically however, I was unsure how exactly they 'escaped' it when clearly RDM did not. Both should be equal, well all jobs should ideally be equal, even more-so for ultimate, SMN shits on RDM and BLM in there due to almost all the phases currently seen allowing SMN to spread dots for most of the fight. It's insane. Rez tax in ultimate is pointless as a death basically means a wipe anyway. Rez is nice in basically anything that doesn't have strict DPS checks or content which is outgeared (which is now basically anything that isn't ultimate).

The mobility tax is rubbish, rdps should not be balanced around perceived complexity, especially when it is not universally applied.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Ranged shouldn’t have the same rDPS as melee or casters without a sufficiently complex rotation that requires proper execution to compensate. Being support and burst window oriented is fine. Being easy and free is not. I’m more concerned about SE’s overall dumbing down of jobs than the ranged tax. Numbers are easy to fix, but simplifying things does no one any favours long term.

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No. You do not understand rDPS metric.

Currently, BLM, SMN, MNK, SAM are doing 1k more damage than range IN ACTUAL FIGHT. Not only on paper. Not only on dummy. In actual fights.

It means that, if because of their "complex rotations" or "melee requirements", they lose uptime in those fights, they still manage to do 1k more. It's not paper craft here, it's real measure. In most fights in the game, ALL classes can manage almost 100% uptime. Even the "not free".
(btw dealing with mechanics means diverting attention from rotation while BLM stays comfy in his leylines but shh, let's not talk about that and say range are free).

There shouldn't be any "range tax". What about middle tier players like me ? We don't care about them, there I said it. Balance is not about us, we don't push classes to their limits, balance is around orange parses and those guys have more uptime in BLM than a green MCH ever will in any fight. Range tax is a mistake and an unwelcomed compensation for a priviledge that is actually non existent at higher tiers.

A bad BLM will lose uptime sometimes to big extents, but a bad mch will mess up his rotation / buff windows and do crap DPS AS WELL.

On real measure, once again, rDPS should not differ by more than 300 on average between all classes. On the graph posted by Akiudo, the 4 last should be at drg / ninja height. So that choosing a class really is only a matter of personal taste and efficiency matters don't start bugging you (so that you don't feel like a weight on a class you like).

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Originally Posted by Karshan

On real measure, once again, rDPS should not differ by more than 300 on average between all classes. On the graph posted by Akiudo, the 4 last should be at drg / ninja height. So that choosing a class really is only a matter of personal taste and efficiency matters don't start bugging you (so that you don't feel like a weight on a class you like).

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Oh, look.

More arbitrary numbers.

Put it this way - If there was no difference at all between the job's numbers, you take Bard, Dancer, Summoner, and a token Melee for the limit break.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Oh, look.

More arbitrary numbers.

Put it this way - If there was no difference at all between the job's numbers, you take Bard, Dancer, Summoner, and a token Melee for the limit break.

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care to tell why taking a token melee for the limit break(+1% buff) is any worse than taking a token phys ranged for the 1% buff alone ? especially as "uptime strats" you will allready have to do for taking a single melee, so may as well take a second one if thats whats available ? i also fail to see why you should necessarely take a summoner over a redmage if numbers were "equal" ?(which even for the poster you quoted did not mean "exactly 100% the same)

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

care to tell why taking a token melee for the limit break(+1% buff) is any worse than taking a token phys ranged for the 1% buff alone ? especially as "uptime strats" you will allready have to do for taking a single melee, so may as well take a second one if thats whats available ? i also fail to see why you should necessarely take a summoner over a redmage if numbers were "equal" ?(which even for the poster you quoted did not mean "exactly 100% the same)

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You take the summoner because it's more mobile, and brings a raise that's basically comparable in all but the most niche scenarios.

It is the all around better choice.

A 300 dps difference at the numbers we have now, depending on who you set that baseline around, is 2-3%. Which is about the variance you see on good/bad crit strings, or even just getting selected by an unfavorable mechanic.

You know which jobs don't really care if they get targeted by unfavorable mechanics?

Bard, Machinist, Dancer.

And of the remaining jobs, the Summoner is the easiest one to adjust to.

As for why token melee vs token ranged, there is no difference in how 'bad' the scenario is. Ideally all the jobs should be desirable, but the fault here lies that the only thing valued is a chart while ignoring everything else about the job that doesn't contribute to it.