Sundering and specific character questions. [Spoilers]

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

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Convocation members was the common theory on Lore forums, that's why I suggested it was aliens instead.

The first calamity though happened some time after the Amaurot fell considering at first there was a failure with the Thirteenth before they figured out there also needs to be a calamity on the Source.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Convocation members was the common theory on Lore forums, that's why I suggested it was aliens instead.

The first calamity though happened some time after the Amaurot fell considering at first there was a failure with the Thirteenth before they figured out there also needs to be a calamity on the Source.

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Yeah, it's a common misconception that the fall of Amaurot was the First Calamity, but it is not. It's more like the Zeroth Calamity. The timeline looks roughly like this:
- The Sound starts making Creation magic go crazy
- The planet is on the verge of destruction (Zeroth Calamity)
- Convocation summons Zodiark at the cost of half of the surviving Ancients
- Zodiark stops the Calamity
- Zodiark fixes the world at the cost of half the remaining Ancients.
- The world is made lush again with new life
- The Convocation proposes that the new life be sacrificed to bring back the previous sacrifices
- The Dissenters dissent, and summon Hydaelyn
- Hydaelyn sunders Zodiark and the world, leaving only three Unsundered Convocation members, who become the original Ascians.
- Emet-Selch, Elidibus, and Lahabrea investigate the new, Sundered worlds to gauge whether they should just turn in the towel and let the new life be their successors.
- They find them wanting, say "Screw that", and start recruiting new Ascians to begin the work of restoring the world
- Igyorhym stirs up trouble on the Thirteenth Shard, but the Rejoining doesn't work. The Thirteenth becomes the Void.
- The Ascians figure out how to have a proper Rejoining, and target the Fifth (I think?) Shard, suffusing it with Wind Aether.
- The First Calamity strikes the Source, and the Shard is successfully Rejoined to it.

The actual timeframes are in question, but it is likely that at least a thousand years passed between the fall of Amaurot and the First Calamity. During most of that time, there were only three Unsundered Convocation members walking the planet, not twelve, thirteen, or fourteen.

This doesn't mean that the Convocation can't be the original Twelve anyway; they could have been legendary figures to the people who existed after the Sundering but before the First Calamity - the First Astral Era, basically - and their reverence survived each Calamity to come up until the present day. Certainly, to the wimpy, one-fourteenth-souled inhabitants, the three Ascians would have been incredibly godlike, and Emet's stories of how things used to be would be like describing an era of gods, with the Twelve being foremost among them.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

I reserve the right to back down from this theory, once we learn more about the Calamity that threatened the Ancients' world. If this Calamity was caused by their very nature as immortal, powerful beings, then presumably other races (including the dragons and whoever created Omega) would run into similar problems. (On the other hand, perhaps they did, or were on the road to doing so...)

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What if the dragons did have similar problems, and decided to take to the Stars to escape them...

The dragons' home planet was ruined by Omega. That's why Midgardsormr fled with the last seven eggs. It's just narrative coincidence that Hydaelyn was the closest planet.

I am really curious to find out how or why Lahabrea, Emet-Selch, and Elidibus were the only ones spared the fate of being sundered. Furthermore, would those Ascians know for sure they are the only unsundered ancients? I do wonder if maybe more are out there, laying low and observing, but if so then to what end? Perhaps there are even some in thrall to Hydaelyn? If there are then why haven't they made themselves known at this point? Did Hydaelyn determine that certain individuals did not require being saved through the sundering process? Perhaps she had hoped some would remain to guide the sundered and help them to thrive. Of course, maybe our three Ascians were left unsundered only due to Zodiark's influence and they really are the only ones left. There's a lot of possibilities abound, and so many questions to be answered.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

Alternatively, and purely going by Hades' name, seeing the Convocation members as similar to the Olympians. (Again not counting the Fourteenth and neither Hades, as he isn't one of the Twelve Olympians in greek mythology.)

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Not sure why you say Hades isn't an Olympian, he definitely is. He is Zeus' brother along with Poseidon. The twelve Olympians are Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Hermes and Artemis

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Originally Posted by Elladie

Not sure why you say Hades isn't an Olympian, he definitely is. He is Zeus' brother along with Poseidon. The twelve Olympians are Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Hermes and Artemis

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Hades generally isn't counted among the Twelve Olympians, since he made his home in the Underworld, not Olympus. You dropped Hephaestus to include Hades in your list.

There could be Dionysus instead of Hestia since she gave up her place for him.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

There could be Dionysus instead of Hestia since she gave up her place for him.

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I wonder if our original soul before it was sundered was "Hestia" since we vacated our seat, like she did.

Resurrecting this thread since it seems to be on topic to my question. So it appears to be the general consensus that the Sundering would not have affected beings from other planets like Midgardsormr (and thus his descendants), Omega, and Nybeth Obdilord (the Floor 100 boss of the Palace of the Dead). Has that been stated/confirmed by any official sources, or is that just the most common agreed upon viewpoint? Because that interpretation seems to make the physics of the universe pretty convoluted compared to assuming the Sundering affected the entire universe (i.e. other planets too).

Because if beings from other planets were not affected by the Sundering does that mean the outer-space of (beyond the moon at least) of the FFXIV can only interact with The Source’s planet? Like if someone living on a Shard/reflection tried to go into outer-space would that outer-space be the same outer-space of the Source? And then if the same individual then turned around would they land on their original Shard planet or would they land on the planet of the Source. Also if time passes differently between Shards and the Source randomly, how the heck would that square with them sharing the same outer-space?

I dunno it seems like it is simpler to assume that the Sundering had to have applied to all of reality, not just the local planet space, for the outer space stuff to make sense.