Letter to SE: Improve New Player Experience with a new introductory story instance

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Originally Posted by YojimboM

I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of the lore, but I've always been under the impression that in 1.0 there were very many "Warriors of Light" (The Path of the Twelve, all the people who had received The Echo), instead of the Warrior of Light that our characters in ARR and beyond become. And that the introduction with Hydaelyn had to do with our characters being one of those of thousands or more that were displaced by Louisoux's summoning of Althyk at the end of the battle. So, when we arrive as a "normal adventurer" in 2.0, we're one of those Echo-attuned people from 1.0.

Of course, the game doesn't explicitly show specific numbers or anything like that, but the characters in The End of an Era were the "placeholder" poster party for the 1.0 players, while there were many off-screen characters established throughout the 1.0 story that had The Echo.

Regardless, that was just an example given. It could be a purely role-play experience in the shoes of a different character or a dream given to us by Hydaelyn to show what happened in the past with our predecessors.

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The Warriors of Light from 1.0 were the adventurers physically present during the Battle of Carteneau that disappeared in a blinding light after Louisoix attempted (and failed) to summon The Twelve and stop Bahamut. They’re called Warriors of Light because, when anyone tries to remember them, all they can see are silhouettes surrounded by a blinding light; no individuals faces. In this game, that means Legacy players. If your character isn’t a Legacy character—if you never played 1.0—then you aren’t a 1.0 Warrior of Light (the ones that are referenced during early ARR). You become a Warrior of Light after your deeds in ARR because they mirror the heroic deeds of the heroes that fought and disappeared during Carteneau (for non-Legacy characters, those WoLs are considered dead and/or lost). If your character is a 1.0 character, there is an extended scene after you finish the Praetorium where the Scions, Cid, and Grand Company leaders suddenly remember that you were at Carteneau with them, and that you are one of those legendary Warriors of Light. But this doesn’t happen for non-Legacy characters. We just become one because we’re found to be as heroic as the original WoLs that fought during Carteneau.

The Path of the Twelve and the Circle of Knowing weren’t Warriors of Light. Most of them go on to become the Scions of the Seventh Dawn in 2.0 (Minfilia, Thancred, Y’shtola, Yda, Papalymo, Urianger); the only one that had the Echo in 1.0 lore was Minfilia, if I recall my lore correctly. The Path of the Twelve was tasked with protecting and aiding (and possibly researching) those with the Echo—but none of them were considered WoLs.

2.0 characters are simply normal adventurers with no ties to anything from 1.0—Warriors of Light included. The only thing “special” we have when we arrive in Eorzea is the Echo; and we don’t even understand what it is. Non-Legacy characters are not 1.0 characters; the two are considered separate.

The characters in the End of an Era video are placeholder characters—just like Derplander is in all the other franchise trailers. Sure, there were more in terms of 1.0 numbers, but he and his party aren’t really meant to be representative of size (since there were more than just 5 players present when 1.0 shut down). They’re just theatric versions of the Legacy playerbase.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

2.0 characters are simply normal adventurers with no ties to anything from 1.0—Warriors of Light included. The only thing “special” we have when we arrive in Eorzea is the Echo; and we don’t even understand what it is. Non-Legacy characters are not 1.0 characters; the two are considered separate.

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This might be a bit out there, but what if it was a role play instance where you play as derplander? Then again, as the players first introduction to the game, there could be a disconnect between their avatar and this new character.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The Warriors of Light from 1.0 were the adventurers physically present during the Battle of Carteneau that disappeared in a blinding light after Louisoix attempted (and failed) to summon The Twelve and stop Bahamut. They’re called Warriors of Light because, when anyone tries to remember them, all they can see are silhouettes surrounded by a blinding light; no individuals faces. In this game, that means Legacy players. If your character isn’t a Legacy character—if you never played 1.0—then you aren’t a 1.0 Warrior of Light (the ones that are referenced during early ARR). You become a Warrior of Light after your deeds in ARR because they mirror the heroic deeds of the heroes that fought and disappeared during Carteneau (for non-Legacy characters, those WoLs are considered dead and/or lost). If your character is a 1.0 character, there is an extended scene after you finish the Praetorium where the Scions, Cid, and Grand Company leaders suddenly remember that you were at Carteneau with them, and that you are one of those legendary Warriors of Light. But this doesn’t happen for non-Legacy characters. We just become one because we’re found to be as heroic as the original WoLs that fought during Carteneau.

The Path of the Twelve and the Circle of Knowing weren’t Warriors of Light. Most of them go on to become the Scions of the Seventh Dawn in 2.0 (Minfilia, Thancred, Y’shtola, Yda, Papalymo, Urianger); the only one that had the Echo in 1.0 lore was Minfilia, if I recall my lore correctly. The Path of the Twelve was tasked with protecting and aiding (and possibly researching) those with the Echo—but none of them were considered WoLs.

2.0 characters are simply normal adventurers with no ties to anything from 1.0—Warriors of Light included. The only thing “special” we have when we arrive in Eorzea is the Echo; and we don’t even understand what it is. Non-Legacy characters are not 1.0 characters; the two are considered separate.

The characters in the End of an Era video are placeholder characters—just like Derplander is in all the other franchise trailers. Sure, there were more in terms of 1.0 numbers, but he and his party aren’t really meant to be representative of size (since there were more than just 5 players present when 1.0 shut down). They’re just theatric versions of the Legacy playerbase.

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There were other npcs in the path of the twelve who had the echo. In 1.0 you got a companion who did some of the main story along with you as an echo user there was also that one npc from 2.0 who was in 1.0 as well who got killed after the garleans invaded the waking sands.

As a matter of fact in 1.0 when you did the quest that introduced you to the Path of the Twelve, you find out how the goldsmith Elezen (cant for the life of me spell his name I do know it begins with an N) died via the Echo. When you come out of it the Npc you were speaking to (Minfillia) goes and contacts people for help because you're fainting and before the screen goes blank you see the chat pop up with her saying that there was another who knows how he died.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

There were other npcs in the path of the twelve who had the echo. In 1.0 you got a companion who did some of the main story along with you as an echo user there was also that one npc from 2.0 who was in 1.0 as well who got killed after the garleans invaded the waking sands.

As a matter of fact in 1.0 when you did the quest that introduced you to the Path of the Twelve, you find out how the goldsmith Elezen (cant for the life of me spell his name I do know it begins with an N) died via the Echo. When you come out of it the Npc you were speaking to (Minfillia) goes and contacts people for help because you're fainting and before the screen goes blank you see the chat pop up with her saying that there was another who knows how he died.

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Okay. So I misremembered my lore and there were more with the Echo. But I don’t think the lore considers any of the Circle or Path members as WoLs. The OP seemed to be under that misconception.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This might be a bit out there, but what if it was a role play instance where you play as derplander? Then again, as the players first introduction to the game, there could be a disconnect between their avatar and this new character.

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I don’t think throwing a solo instance at a new player with a random NPC they have no real knowledge of is really the way to go. It may hurt their own immersion into the beginning of the story because they’re forced into playing a character that isn’t theirs.

You're right about that with the circle of knowing or path of the twelve. It was more the PC and the group of adventurer friends that are the WoL.

Btw I also agree with what you're saying as well. The new 2.0 players were not at Cartenau (no matter if they have headcanon stating they were there) nor would they have been reborn WoL either. That would bring terrible implications as to the story of the game and the established lore as well. Like if they were literally reborn as in reincarnation then that character would be at most 5 years old. Then there can be the implication of that Hydaelyn put that soul into a random body (making us no better than Ascians). No it just wouldn't work that way and hold true to the storyline itself.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

You're right about that with the circle of knowing or path of the twelve. It was more the PC and the group of adventurer friends that are the WoL.

Btw I also agree with what you're saying as well. The new 2.0 players were not at Cartenau (no matter if they have headcanon stating they were there) nor would they have been reborn WoL either. That would bring terrible implications as to the story of the game and the established lore as well. Like if they were literally reborn as in reincarnation then that character would be at most 5 years old. Then there can be the implication of that Hydaelyn put that soul into a random body (making us no better than Ascians). No it just wouldn't work that way and hold true to the storyline itself.

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I think what parts of 1.0 that made sense are important. But I think that the characters that lived it and the ones who came around after it should remain separate with regards to their in-game lore. I understand the OP wants the Battle of Carteneau to be witnessed—but for non-Legacy characters, it’s not really a fight of ours to fight. I think it can remained appreciated without being reimplemented, even if I think that would be a neat Rising event (like the Rising event with the 1.0 Ul’dah reenactment).

Other things in OP’s post I agreed with—like making lower levels more engaging in terms of combat. But I can’t think of a non-discontinuous way to implement a Battle of Carteneau Echo dream/instance/thing.

Just as a small clarification, Legacy does not guarantee you are a Warrior of Light. You are only considered a Warrior of Light if you were involved with the entirety of the 1.0 story up to the White Raven fight. I only barely got to deal with the Path stuff, so the game didn't consider me someone from the 1.0 era, though I have the Legacy tattoo.

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Originally Posted by YojimboM

I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of the lore, but I've always been under the impression that in 1.0 there were very many "Warriors of Light" (The Path of the Twelve, all the people who had received The Echo), instead of the Warrior of Light that our characters in ARR and beyond become. And that the introduction with Hydaelyn had to do with our characters being one of those of thousands or more that were displaced by Louisoux's summoning of Althyk at the end of the battle. So, when we arrive as a "normal adventurer" in 2.0, we're one of those Echo-attuned people from 1.0.

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No, this isn't the case.

There were no Warriors of Light in 1.x. The name is one given by people after Carteneau to the people who died there whom they can't remember. All they remember is a bright light. This is all explained simply and clearly by Miounne/Momodi/guy in the Drowning Wench whose name escapes me currently. It has nothing at all to do with Hydaelyn.

Yes there are multiple Warriors of Light of this kind but none of them - or only one if you're a Legacy player - becomes the actual, one of a kind Warrior of Light. Again, though, that name has nothing to do with Hydaelyn, it's just a title folks give you.

On the subject of some epic battle at the start for new players, I hate games that do that. Much rather learn how the controls work without overly stressful music, pyrotechnics, and bits of story I won't even listen to because I'm panicking about how I jump from here to there.

I very much enjoyed the battle tutorials in the Hall of the Novice. So what you're suggesting would absolutely not improve the new player experience for people like me.

I wish all jobs had their AOE combos before lvl 50 at least. I wish they front load alot of skills in the next expansion. It feels as if leveling was made worse in this expansion.

Sort of lines up with what I had wanted to see happen in the future as we get new content locked behind a literal year worth of old content lol. New start to the game that gives an action packed / the most pertinent lore info / dump. It's of course not enough time to cover 300 hours in 2 hours but you can "movie" along the major details XD, don't need to know you've met the caravan bro before (it's a cute detail for sure, but it doesn't kill the story not to know- you can still understand the game's direction). Of course if you don't want to miss the book reading then don't pick the option, or just go back and use new game+ lol. So in general like how movies perform (miss lots of small details, still able to tell a general idea of what's going on).

I feel the starting experience of FFXIV is not as strong as it should be, not really into the action or creative designs that early, slow combat, heavy on reading and some of that reading isn't really that ground defining (it builds a slow lore burn if you're into that but it's not a good thing if you're not lol, luckily the ARR line is being trimmed as there were a few moments even though I read MSQ where I was like... "if I wasn't invested already I might say something bad right now. ."). Not that I'm suggesting to remove the original intro, just feel that if you've got a even basic mind for games and you're not yet invested in the world that SE could bring you closer to their more inventive, newer, more learned experience polished content (where they learn that "x doesn't make good content and y does" where the talent has learned what works and not, like how I feel ShB is a lesson on the past and they've really improved the delivery and pacing- ShB definitely being some of the top mmo experience I've had).

I think a new start event could be fun either way (whether it performs a short cut or not and just slaps you into the town after the intro cutscene), at least personally not a huge fan of FFXIV's start (in comparison to other starts I've experienced, which is not a statement about the entire game- clearly I prefer FFXIV lol), and even adding some action before going back to that start I think would help. That's not to say everyone has to find it bad, I know some like being plopped into the major town as it does.

Some weird implications if you use that battle specifically but you could always twist it a bit to fit better. Like you echo the experience of someone who battled there (gc leader), meeting someone in the caravan / very beginning of town, pondering at the feet of an abandoned broken magitek walker (day dreaming, in this sense it could even be your character- just make that it's a day dream clear, wanting for adventure), or even a short cut scene where you're found at one of the stones of the twelves based on the sign you chose (making it clear it wasn't you but a memory of something that's happened). Just like how our roleplay events currently work (OP mentions role play a few times). Not that I think it has to be this particular battle to do what OP wants, but I don't think using the battle is a problem given enough creative problem solving.