Can we agree this is not cool?

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Originally Posted by Canadane

This. I may not like it, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

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Which is the problem. They need to redefine wrong to match common sense.

I get they didn't break the rules, I do, but the question is why the rules are like this.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Which is the problem. They need to redefine wrong to match common sense.

I get they didn't break the rules, I do, but the question is why the rules are like this.

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To allow a FC a house.
What do you propose, someone has to complete the MSQ before their FC can get a house? It’s not like bots don’t already do this.
After so much you’ll only further frustrate legitimate players than you already have.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

To allow a FC a house.
What do you propose, someone has to complete the MSQ before their FC can get a house? It’s not like bots don’t already do this.
After so much you’ll only further frustrate legitimate players than you already have.

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Let's rewind to the beginning and take a look at this example. Lv 1 FC master with an empty medium house and 3 other members all below lv 15. The FC was started in 2016, and while I have no idea how active it was in its prime (if it ever had more than 4 members and was actually active), I think it's safe to assume it's been an FC lead by a lv 1alt for a while now who probably already has a personal on their main. So what's the point of an FC other than a bypass for housing?

What other aspects of an FC are they actually performing they make them a legitimate example of what FC are for? I'm told it takes only a couple days of casual effort to get a high enough rank to buy a house, so that's irrelevant. So, why should they be allowed to keep this obvious trophy house? It would be different if it was a personal, but it's just rude and audacious to claim this bare-minimum FC has a right to this cold, empty medium house in a game where houses are in such demand because of players like this who "are following the rules."

Stop saying they're following the rules, that's not the point and never has been. The point is that there are no true rules, just obstacles that have already been explored and bypassed by those willing to do so, like this player.

The housing system is the definition of anarchy.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The point is that there are no true rules, just obstacles that have already been explored and bypassed by those willing to do so, like this player.

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No matter what obstacles they put in, people will still find a way to bypass them. They tried to limit FC housing (one per server per account) and ended up reverting it later (I assume because it hindered legitimate FCs too much to be worthwhile and people could still bypass it anyway).

Personal housing had no business being in the wards - that's pretty much the root cause of this issue. At this point I think they should just admit defeat and create an instanced housing system that exists alongside the wards. Or expand apartments and allow crossbreeding/airships/submarines outside of housing.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Let's rewind to the beginning and take a look at this example. Lv 1 FC master with an empty medium house and 3 other members all below lv 15. The FC was started in 2016, and while I have no idea how active it was in its prime (if it ever had more than 4 members and was actually active), I think it's safe to assume it's been an FC lead by a lv 1alt for a while now who probably already has a personal on their main. So what's the point of an FC other than a bypass for housing?

What other aspects of an FC are they actually performing they make them a legitimate example of what FC are for? I'm told it takes only a couple days of casual effort to get a high enough rank to buy a house, so that's irrelevant. So, why should they be allowed to keep this obvious trophy house? It would be different if it was a personal, but it's just rude and audacious to claim this bare-minimum FC has a right to this cold, empty medium house in a game where houses are in such demand because of players like this who "are following the rules."

Stop saying they're following the rules, that's not the point and never has been. The point is that there are no true rules, just obstacles that have already been explored and bypassed by those willing to do so, like this player.

The housing system is the definition of anarchy.

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The thing is, level 1 characters are unable to make FCs of their own. This means that it had previously at some point in time was ran/own/lead by a leveled and active player that met all current requirements. The level 1 character was promoted as a place holder because whoever owns it obviously is not ready to part ways with it yet.

There have been times where I use to be an FC leader and my FC would have a falling out. I would be stressed out and throw my house on an alt while I went and searched for another FC to join where I could release stress. Having held onto the house for the day I felt ready to try again.

People might think it wrong of me to do but honestly, the truth of the matter is this isn't so much as being morally wrong as it is jealously. I bought the house fair and square. I worked for it fair and square. I made the decision I wasn't ready to let it go yet. It's basically people who're salty they don't have a house that would be upset about it thinking that if I wanted to "take a break" I should get rid of it anyway. Why? To make it harder for myself when I decide to try again? (that's more of a personal rant than anything towards you)

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The housing system is the definition of anarchy.

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One of the prices of freedom is equality. One of the prices of equality is freedom.
You may dislike the freedom of the housing market, but others might dislike someone like you dictating whom "deserves" a house and whom does not.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Not naming any names, but I found a medium house in goblet that had an interesting, if bland yard but was suspiciously empty inside even though it was an FC house. I looked up the FC owner's name and lo and behold it belonged to a level one player with no other classes open, and the FC itself only has four members. So here's a very big home that is basically a shell owned for no other apparent reason that to simply own it, while active players are outside camping a small for their first ever home, be it for themselves or for an FC.

Why is this standard for FC home owning allowed? I understand if they're in the process of building an FC from scratch or lost a bunch of members, but shouldn't there at least be a time limit for FC inactivity before the "FC House" is repossessed? It's so easy to bypass the one home rule with an FC home, and this player isn't even doing anything with it.

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If the FC has been open that long, likely the player is using it to run a workshop since that requires a FC house.

Why does SE allow it? Because they don't have the manpower to police every single FC and its activity. Creating more restrictions could mess up legitimate FCs more than it obstructs individual players exploiting the system. That's probably why they aren't enforcing the 1 FC house per world per account limitation that's still listed on the Lodestone.

It's yet another reason for a better instanced housing system. Those abusing the system wouldn't prevent other players who want a house from getting one like is currently happening with the ward system.

I know a few people who have done this because they want direct control/access to the submarine and airship system. The answer would be to allow workshop stuff to be used by individuals with or without a FC.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Legitimate just-following-the-rules-=) greed is still greed.

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You're saying it's not also greed to sit in this thread lusting over other people's houses that they worked hard to get and devising ways to steal their houses from them?

I think everyone has rights to have a home, FC or Personal, the real problem imo are people that buy a house and do absolutely NOTHING there, not even a single furnishing in their plot. If you're going to buy a Plot and do that kind of stuff ( i mean, nothing at all ) why do you take away the chance from someone who's actually do something to buy it?, someone who's actually need it for something?. That's unfair and selfish.

I had 2 Houses, 1 Personal and 1 Solo FC, all both was FULLY FURNISHED by myself, i had Gardening, Airship and Submarine working every single day, farming mats that i can only obtain by that, farming resources for my crafters and etc. Then i lost my both house because i had to stop playing the game or while ( 8 months hiatus, ~120 Millions Gil that i invested in both lost ), and that was fair in my point of view, i wasn't playing that time, i wasn't making use of my houses for that time, so i lost my plots by that to give another player a opportunity to use it, but i paid a visit days ago to the plots that belonged me once and both was TOTALLY EMPTY, so 2 plots was made useless again ( the same should apply by user name imo, if you're not playing you should lose your name, so someone else could use it, i wanted to give "Clark Kent" name to my Character but i couldn't because someone had that name already, someone who leveled his character until Lv9 and never played anymore ).

SQEX should make unlimited instanced plots, or make those people who don't make any use of their plot lose it.