Suggestion - (Optional) - High difficulty, High rewards Dungeons

We got those. They're called Dungeon (Hard).

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Originally Posted by rance-sama

We got those. They're called Dungeon (Hard).

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I hate to break the illusion, but "(Hard)" is codeword for "flipped assets".

We had that before. It was called pre-nerf Pharos Sirius. People would literally not run it because they were so afraid of actually doing mechanics.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

We had that before. It was called pre-nerf Pharos Sirius. People would literally not run it because they were so afraid of actually doing mechanics.

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And Amdapor Keep. I remember people failing not just the Demon Wall, but even the first boss. Mechanics were "difficult".

Just look at the Ivalice raids. Probably the hardest set of "casual" content we have yet. I hope that trend continues with the NIER raids. It'll have glamour people want, would be interesting to see if people would learn to do mechanics for glams.

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Originally Posted by YojimboM

It's not Deep Dungeon, and I can only assume the fascination the community here has with thinking that's the same thing is that they've never played other MMOs. It's not about healers not being able to keep up, either, "more challenging" doesn't mean artificially inflated damage. It means more using your brain and using utilities rather than directly beating enemies to death as the means of progressing the dungeon.

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That is a great part of what I would mean yes ^_^

No need for a diferent kind of dungeons (look at the the pseudo-hard mode ones).
We just need the dungeons to have more interesting designs or mechanics than just running through corridor into circular arenas.

Like dungeons with a recurrent mechanic, extensive usage of the duty skill slots, and interesting design, both vertical and non-linear. Like party splits, last stand mechanics, wave combats, scorting, running and jumping mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

As a healer, I don't think it would put undue stress on the healer unless they had it drastically tuned incorrectly. More healers want to heal more, and not be green dps. In current content, so little healing is needed or is scripted to the point an ok healer ends up with a lot of downtime to just DPS.

Have you not seen all the threads about healers DPSing? People don't want healers to DPS, but they also don't want the healer sitting around doing nothing. These "hard" dungeons would be a good place to try finding that correct balance without messing it up in the normal ones. As we all know how touchy people are about challenging content if its required for progress.

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Let me put it this way then. Healer is the only role where the group instantly wipes if you die, every other role has a chance of recovery if they die. If you only have one healer, and they die, it is impossible to continue unless you have a SMN or RDM in the party. That is the disproportionate difficulty I am talking about.

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Originally Posted by Kyux

Those dungeons would require:

• Careful pulls
• Crowd Controls (Binding monsters, Silencing/Stunning at the right time, sleeping etc)
• Managing resources and cooldowns
• Using different tactics depending on the group of enemies you engage.
  (This could bring back some uses for low level food, potions and buff or debuff potions.)

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These are factors in Deep Dungeon/ Heaven on High if you choose to try to get to the end. Careful Pulls? You pretty much have to resort to only fighting one monster at a time in most higher floor situations. Not helped that some monster types patrol. Crowd Control? Sleep is an incredible life saver if things start going off the rails and you end up with more enemies than you want and stun is always an option for those mobs with lethal abilities. Managing Resources/cooldowns? The Pomanders play a key role in survival of the upper levels and using them frivolously can leave you in a bad situation later. Different monster tactics? A lot of the more dangerous monsters on higher levels get increasingly more lethal abilities that require you to handle them more carefully and react accordingly when you see their ability charging. Pomanders also give the potential to approach different situations with a few different strategies.

Both also cover your "Why's" and "Rewards" with the exception of exp, with that being a part of the lower floors' appeal. And your "Differences" pretty much describe the monsters inside both areas. If you're concerned about another exp outlet, I think right now there are more than enough options without needing to give a particularly punishing piece of content just to "grind levels." I admit the zerg-rush-hallwaysdungeons are repetitive and boring after the 2nd run, and I think they should introduce something different from it (extra paths with loot isn't the answer), but pretty much everything you described is a feature of Deep Dungeon and HoH when you go beyond the easy floors.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

We had that before. It was called pre-nerf Pharos Sirius. People would literally not run it because they were so afraid of actually doing mechanics.

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It was always more about the other 2 dungeons of the same level being braindead easy and taking less time and effort and gave the same rewards. It's why things like the Mentor Roulette has that stigma of people dropping when they see a trial they don't like because there are easier and quicker options available in the same roulette.

[QUOTE=Cidel;5146363]These are factors in Deep Dungeon/ Heaven on High if you choose to try to get to the end. Careful Pulls? You pretty much have to resort to only fighting one monster at a time in most higher floor situations. Not helped that some monster types patrol. Crowd Control? Sleep is an incredible life saver if things start going off the rails and you end up with more enemies than you want and stun is always an option for those mobs with lethal abilities. Managing Resources/cooldowns? The Pomanders play a key role in survival of the upper levels and using them frivolously can leave you in a bad situation later. Different monster tactics? A lot of the more dangerous monsters on higher levels get increasingly more lethal abilities that require you to handle them more carefully and react accordingly when you see their ability charging. Pomanders also give the potential to approach different situations with a few different strategies.

I do agree with you and I enjoyed very much the deep dungeons, most of the thing were there but you still had to level all the way and reach those floors. :P

But I would still love to see older dungeons with higher difficulty like "Haukke Manor" or "Brayflox's Longstop" etc. Using my gear, melding materia to gain a needed edge in fight, then requiring a good strategy and team play style to actually conquer and win the dungeon to get a satisfying amount of experience, gil for the effort put in by the party. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

So pray tell, what exactly does leveling dungeons have and endgame content doesn't that makes it worse? Excluding the wall to wall pulls.

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1. Experience (for first timer either tank or healer)
2. Undergear (either tank or healer)
3. Some of the important spell set is still not available
4. Mobs that hit a lot harder
5. Boss mechanic that is more punishing

Obviously, we are talking about OP suggestion where the difficulty is set higher. The factors above will stress the healer more than other roles.