Suggestion - (Optional) - High difficulty, High rewards Dungeons

[Kyux]

Hey! I have just recently come back to the game. I have noticed alot of changes (some good, some bad) and there is something I would like to see in the game. A challenging environment to level up my new classes or lower levels disciples of war and magic.

So, I was just wondering if anyone else would be interested in harder low/mid/high level dungeons. (Accessible by roulettes)
These could be similar to the primals higher difficulties.

Higher Difficulty Dungeons

Those dungeons would require:

• Careful pulls
• Crowd Controls (Binding monsters, Silencing/Stunning at the right time, sleeping etc)
• Managing resources and cooldowns
• Using different tactics depending on the group of enemies you engage.
  (This could bring back some uses for low level food, potions and buff or debuff potions.)

Why:

• Those dungeons would be meant for people who are looking for a good fun challenge while leveling, instead of having to wait all the way up to the endgame content.
• Getting a sensation of accomplishment and receiving a good reward for it.
• Helping some players who are willing to tackle these challenging difficulty to get better and attuning for more challenging part of the game.

Rewards:

• Would simply be way higher EXP and gils than normal. Since those dungeons couldn't be rushed, it would need to be a substantial amount.
• (Maybe also some little achievements or special pets, mounts, piece of fashion garment to attract some more players?)

Difference:

• There could be:
• Some additional monsters.
• Additional skills for some monsters, like more frequent status effects and debuffs (poison, paralysis, etc) or heals. - Giving some uses to those antidotes and other potions.
• Special monsters patrolling.

Daily Roulette:
In order to prevent that from splitting up the dungeon community too much, a daily random high difficulty dungeon could be added.


I think it could be a great change from the current way of grinding levels in roulette, which is currently pretty straightforward.

I personally would like to see something like that appear in the future and would like too hear the thoughts of others on the subject! ^_^

[Lambdafish]

The primary reason stated that this won't happen is because it puts so much stress on the healer. i.e. difficulty in these dungeons is far more disproportionate than 8 man content. What I have suggested in the past is 5 man dungeons that are made up of 1 tank, 2 healers, 2 DPS, which would take the stress off a single healer and allow content to be more flexible.

[Hawklaser]

The primary reason stated that this won't happen is because it puts so much stress on the healer. i.e. difficulty in these dungeons is far more disproportionate than 8 man content. What I have suggested in the past is 5 man dungeons that are made up of 1 tank, 2 healers, 2 DPS, which would take the stress off a single healer and allow content to be more flexible.

As a healer, I don't think it would put undue stress on the healer unless they had it drastically tuned incorrectly. More healers want to heal more, and not be green dps. In current content, so little healing is needed or is scripted to the point an ok healer ends up with a lot of downtime to just DPS.

Have you not seen all the threads about healers DPSing? People don't want healers to DPS, but they also don't want the healer sitting around doing nothing. These "hard" dungeons would be a good place to try finding that correct balance without messing it up in the normal ones. As we all know how touchy people are about challenging content if its required for progress.

[ksuyen]

As a healer, I don't think it would put undue stress on the healer unless they had it drastically tuned incorrectly. More healers want to heal more, and not be green dps. In current content, so little healing is needed or is scripted to the point an ok healer ends up with a lot of downtime to just DPS.

Have you not seen all the threads about healers DPSing? People don't want healers to DPS, but they also don't want the healer sitting around doing nothing. These "hard" dungeons would be a good place to try finding that correct balance without messing it up in the normal ones. As we all know how touchy people are about challenging content if its required for progress.

Not for levelling dungeon which the OP mention. Your argument is valid for end game, when most healers get all their healing sets and better gears.

[Hawklaser]

Not for levelling dungeon which the OP mention. Your argument is valid for end game, when most healers get all their healing sets and better gears.

You realize the only reason healing is any kind of stressful in a leveling dungeon is due to the wall to wall pulls? And the only reason those get stressful for decent healers is usually due to someone being undergeared, not aoeing and the mobs take too long to die, or not using their cooldowns. Decent healers still end up with tons of downtime to just spend DPS'ing in leveling content too. Every boss in the leveling dungeons is scripted and the damage is predictable, coupled with a much larger room for error with people messing up the mechanics.

And people even complain about when the wall to wall pulls don't happen as it makes things take a few minuets longer. The community adopted the wall to wall pulls, which likely stresses the bulk of new healers out way more than any single mob pack pull or boss in the game ever will.

So pray tell, what exactly does leveling dungeons have and endgame content doesn't that makes it worse? Excluding the wall to wall pulls.

[ksuyen]

So pray tell, what exactly does leveling dungeons have and endgame content doesn't that makes it worse? Excluding the wall to wall pulls.

1. Experience (for first timer either tank or healer)
2. Undergear (either tank or healer)
3. Some of the important spell set is still not available
4. Mobs that hit a lot harder
5. Boss mechanic that is more punishing

Obviously, we are talking about OP suggestion where the difficulty is set higher. The factors above will stress the healer more than other roles.

[Ilyrian]

You realize the only reason healing is any kind of stressful in a leveling dungeon is due to the wall to wall pulls? And the only reason those get stressful for decent healers is usually due to someone being undergeared, not aoeing and the mobs take too long to die, or not using their cooldowns. Decent healers still end up with tons of downtime to just spend DPS'ing in leveling content too. Every boss in the leveling dungeons is scripted and the damage is predictable, coupled with a much larger room for error with people messing up the mechanics.

And people even complain about when the wall to wall pulls don't happen as it makes things take a few minuets longer. The community adopted the wall to wall pulls, which likely stresses the bulk of new healers out way more than any single mob pack pull or boss in the game ever will.

So pray tell, what exactly does leveling dungeons have and endgame content doesn't that makes it worse? Excluding the wall to wall pulls.

I think it's more that the healer has to do their job and stay alive - whereas a DPS can die and be ressed and, usually, can readjust.

If we assume that all the players in the dungeon are skilled enough to clear it there is still additional pressure on the healer to not make a mistake as the whole thing, usually, would unravel with them dying.

I think this is what Yoshi P was alluding to in that conversation I'm too lazy to find.

Personally i would like the challenge - as I'm quite a thick-skinned healer who (in old age) could deal with the potential 'spicy' situation. But I can see the potential for everything to go South pretty quickly and people to blame the healer.
So it would have to be outside of the DF I'd imagine.

It is interesting though - as it does kind of bring up the argument of personal responsibility within parties. Healers basically can't slack whilst (literally) shielding the other players from their own mistakes.

[Lambdafish]

As a healer, I don't think it would put undue stress on the healer unless they had it drastically tuned incorrectly. More healers want to heal more, and not be green dps. In current content, so little healing is needed or is scripted to the point an ok healer ends up with a lot of downtime to just DPS.

Have you not seen all the threads about healers DPSing? People don't want healers to DPS, but they also don't want the healer sitting around doing nothing. These "hard" dungeons would be a good place to try finding that correct balance without messing it up in the normal ones. As we all know how touchy people are about challenging content if its required for progress.

Let me put it this way then. Healer is the only role where the group instantly wipes if you die, every other role has a chance of recovery if they die. If you only have one healer, and they die, it is impossible to continue unless you have a SMN or RDM in the party. That is the disproportionate difficulty I am talking about.

[Mikhaill]

What I have suggested in the past is 5 man dungeons that are made up of 1 tank, 2 healers, 2 DPS, which would take the stress off a single healer and allow content to be more flexible.

For this point here...We're already thin with healers, especially with the boring changes that have been made.
We would be waiting years for a second healer.
I say add another DPS into that.
(In general tbh, would help the DPS. I think the 1-1-2 thing is kinda odd.)