I think there is a pretty huge difference between leading an army, and being a (frankly) entirely disposable foot soldier... Most who fight Sin Eaters die, we saw that plenty throughout the story. Those that continue to survive do so because they're stronger, and Ran'jit was pretty much at the peak of that little notion. Just because they've been fighting Sin Eaters for decades doesn't mean everyone in their army has been, the vast majority die and are replaced, grim as that might be. As far as I'm aware Ran'jit was the only character noted for serving as long as he had in all of Norvrandt... Seems he also had an oddly long lifetime as well, from what I can gather (since he trained plenty of Minfilias, although I guess they might have a high turn over rate), which only adds to his power level in a fantasy setting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
Ran'ji > WoD + Oracle of Light + Scorn!?
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07-29-2019, 02:14 AMNalien
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07-29-2019, 02:20 AMEdaxI see no indications that the Eulmorean and Crystalium Armies have suffered 99.99% casualties over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
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07-29-2019, 03:26 AMNalienI suggest you go talk to Moren and have him retell you the story of the Oracles of Light, then. 99.99% is obvious hyperbole, but the story went to great lengths to highlight the constant loss of life and dire circumstances involved in fighting the Sin Eaters... That's partly why Eulmore became the place it was, people were sick of fighting a losing battle... Heck, if people aren't out right dying to Sin Eaters (and in a battle where your trump-card Oracle of Light fell, one can imagine many regular soldiers fell as well...), they're slowly being turned into Sin Eaters themselves... The Exarch even mentions that it came at great cost to their forces to even learn about the Lightwardens... At every stop possible, they tried to highlight how dire the situation was, then Ran'jit steps in as Eulmores General, old and obviously battleworn, not to mention he mentored numerous Minfilias, who all fell in battles he presumably took part in, prior to Eulmore ducking out of the conflict... That alone labels him as perhaps Norvrandts single most powerful mortal, I really don't get how people can think he wasn't hyped up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
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07-29-2019, 03:49 AMIscahThe "Eulmoran army that has been fighting sin eaters for decades" is not a single person who has been training for that long. There is no guarantee that any one person who has been in the army over that time is stronger than Ran'jit is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
I'm not sure how you can even go about comparing them. -
07-29-2019, 04:19 AMKaitoAsaha
Personally I come to find that people let our feats go to their heads and forget how our blessing seems to work. It gets us out of trouble more times than not and makes the impossible possible against beings beyond mortal standards, but in legit fights against a mortal opponent who's just as skilled or experienced as us the blessing cannot be applied as it comes down to just being a matter of skill on skill. Ran'jit, Zenos, Raubhan and many more fall under this. As someone whose grown up watching badly dubbed martial films I loved Ran'jit being this much older, seasoned veteran that can give young upstarts a run for their money, and the fact that we go to another world and we're no longer the strongest doesn't seem that strange in the slightest, and it was good for as brief as it was. If the devs plan to keep him on as a villain then I hope there's more than meets the eye here. As some have mentioned Ran'jit is out of the ordinary, in both skill and features. And given what Eulmores diet consisted of maybe he's some kind of hybrid. So maybe down the lines we may face a metamorphosed and younger Ran'jit?
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07-29-2019, 04:41 AMTinyRedLeafI expected such grouses and, sure enough, here they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alise
Firstly, I should point out that it is a fair question to ask. How is that a primal-slayer multiple times over could still be defeated by another mortal? How could there be any other person as powerful as, or even more powerful that Zenos, whom the WoL had defeated twice, in both Zeno's mortal and primal forms?
My first answer would be, why not? There will always be a higher mountain. And indeed, if there isn't some bigger, more challenging conflict to overcome, you wouldn't have a story to tell.
In short, story-telling will always take priority over game mechanics (which are, in any case, just tools for playing a game; any mortal who gets stabbed in the heart would still die instantly, regardless of many thousands of HP he has; it's only logical).
My second answer is more of a hypothesis, but please indulge me: I would suggest that we shouldn't forget that the WoL was fighting in a different world, a world where the flow of aether has been massively disrupted and brought to a standstill in many places. And this would presumably have an impact on the way he or she would fight.
Actually, this reminds me of a pet peeve of mine: I remain annoyed by how the story has conveniently forgotten about a premise it had set up from the very beginning, that the concentration of aether in Eorzea is higher than in any other part of Hydaelyn. I had wondered whether the thinning of aether — the farther we travel away from Eorzea — would weaken the WoL, or at least produce some kind of brief, physical symptom, but it hasn't. And that seems like a glaring omission to me.
I guess it's a matter of gameplay segregation from lore. Be that as it may, it's worth remembering that the WoL's first encounter with Ran'jit occurred fairly early in his journey into Novrandt. So, it's not hard to imagine that he had not yet fully acclimatised to the new conditions before he was forced to fight the Eulmoran general.
Even then, do note that the WoL was able to last several rounds against Ran'jit, before he was finally overpowered. When he first faced Zenos in Rhalgr's Reach, the WoL was KO'ed almost immediately. And this alone suggests that, while Ran'jit was very powerful, he too would probably not have been match for Zenos in his prime.
So, as you can see, there are ways to rationalise the apparent disparity between the WoL and Ran'jit in the early part of the story.
Ultimately, the WoL is just another mortal, albeit a very powerful one. He can be killed, especially when he's up against overwhelming odds. And, more pertinently, the WoL is far from omniscient. And so, he can still be caught off-guard by an unfamiliar enemy, fighting on unfamilar ground, and with an unfamiliar combat style.
I mean, even real-life top-performing athletes can flop at the most inexplicable moments, for seemingly trivial reasons like them not being in the right mood at the right time to deliver their best results.
It's only human.
And if even godlike individuals like the Amaurotines can make mistakes, what more a mere mortal like the WoL? -
07-29-2019, 05:27 AMEdaxThat also brings up a point, the Eulmoran army has been allied with the Sin Eaters for an entire generation, which means Ran'jit would have his combat experience eroded away for decades by peacetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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07-29-2019, 06:07 AMNalienHe really didn't strike me as the kind of person to let his talents erode, personally...Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
Not to mention, there wasn't really a "peacetime". Between Eulmore and Sin Eaters, sure. All the other monsters in the world though? They kept a standing army despite having control over both Sin Eaters and their entire population, probably a reason for that and probably plenty of work to be done because of that. -
07-29-2019, 06:22 AMAlleoAlso if he somehow can solo all of us (after we just took out a Lightwarden) why did he never fought against a Lightwarden? Was it common knowledge that the one that defeats it will turn into the next one so he never attemps it? Because if he is that strong..why not take out one of the leaders of the sin eaters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
My problem with such characters is: First we have to fight them in a battle where we normaly dont have much problems until the NPC uses his plotattack to take us down with one hit. If he is that more powerful then show it. Make it so that its really hard to not lose to him in maybe a minute. (At least it was nice that we were standing the longest thus showing how much better we were) Or if you dont want him to be that powerful then let those enemy use bad tricks. Not everyone has to play by the rules so why not have him use some unknown poison on us? Thus the next fight as Thancred, he is prepared against that.
I am just more annoyed how he seemingly always knew where we were. Even in the labyrinth in the woods.. -
07-29-2019, 10:07 AMTankHunter678All you have to do is look at Titania to see why he would consider not fighting a Lightwarden directly. Titania probably also fought a Lightwarden early in the war. Not to mention probably many other would be Heroes that Ran'jit fought alongside of against them. As well as probably the many Minfilias.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
Anyways, Ran'jit explicitly mentions that he figured you out in that early fight when he immobilizes you. He is clearly a master monk of the strongest martial art on the first. He may not overpower us, as we were actually beating him in that first fight, but he was able to contest us. The other Scions with us at the time were simply not the best match for him, Thancred could but Thancred had spent a much longer time having to deal with Ran'jit then the rest that were with us. By the time we face him again we have figured out how to deal with his as some would see it "cheap shot". Then we just beat him like we would have at Laxan Loft.
He also, due to Vauthry, knew where each of the Lightwardens were and how to get to them. If there was only one path to get to the Lightwarden in Rak'tika then him knowing it is not that big of a surprise. He also has a familiar that could have been tracking us since it is not in every scene with him until he summons it.