Love the DRK, thoughts on other tanks.

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Originally Posted by ExLegen

What you described about GNB is not complex whatsoever, its a simple rotation, specially compared with any of the other 3 tanks.
The complexity about tanks is about active mitigation, you"HAVE" to wisely mitigate dmg to stay alive and not overtax the healers (its not just pop stuff on tank busters).
Other than that, the only complex skill among the tanks is called TBN, and only because its a possible loss of 500 potency if misused.

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This 100% after playing both Drk and GnB (I think I main GnB)drk is definitely more complex tho , the mp manage is way harder to manage than anything gunbreaker has.. and TBN is definitely the most complex defensive cd of all the tanks. Mind you all tanks are pretty easy anyways. Drk needs a few changes for sure but I will say it's very fun right now

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Originally Posted by Drakkaelus

I wouldn't have minding keeping the actual Dark Arts skill and just making it less repetitive. Even something simple like, "+x% increased damage for y seconds" would have been cool.

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I'd have to agree. SB DRK's Dark Arts became tedious for tedium's sake.

The spam had a weird effect on me. Although I didn't necessarily mind doing twice the work of the other tank jobs (really, like 1/4th - 1/3rd more) for a similar output, it always gave me the feeling that I was actually outputting considerably less in the end.

However! Now they only have their 1 2 3, which is odd to me where all 3 of the other tanks have either the branch at the end (3a/3b), or a different set every 20 seconds for GNB. I thought that would be an enormous complaint point in the forums when I first saw it. I'll have to check this out when I lvl that class though. 2 down 2 to go for full 80 omni tank, and then I'll have a greater opinion on how I think the current DRK is compared to a month ago.

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Originally Posted by shao32

TBN is not complex, it's limited by design and the excessive punishment.

Rotation is more complex to execute and keep depending of the design of the rotation himself, keep the integrity of the rotation is more harder depending of the job, in the case of GNB and PLD they rotations are more rigid so are harder to adjust to mechanics and correct mistakes Vs DRK that they can fit abyssal drain, salted earth, carve and spit, edge, blood weapon window and delirium window where they want and when they want since there is nothing that hold the power of such skills since all of them are independent now, so his execution is fairly much more easy in result. DRK have his resource management severely simplified and reduced so the job don't have anything that can be take as difficult to use, TBN status right now just limit the skill to TB and only TB that's all.

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rotations being less easy isnt the same as hard.

And about TBN, im not saying its complex per say. im saying its complex when compared to other tanks Kit. Outside of tank busters, its either a gamble or you have very deep knowledge of the fights.

DRK was complex back in the days of Heavensward. It was also a lot more fun too (even if its kit was kind of messy).

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Originally Posted by shao32

TBN is not complex, it's limited by design and the excessive punishment.

Rotation is more complex to execute and keep depending of the design of the rotation himself, keep the integrity of the rotation is more harder depending of the job, in the case of GNB and PLD they rotations are more rigid so are harder to adjust to mechanics and correct mistakes Vs DRK that they can fit abyssal drain, salted earth, carve and spit, edge, blood weapon window and delirium window where they want and when they want since there is nothing that hold the power of such skills since all of them are independent now, so his execution is fairly much more easy in result. DRK have his resource management severely simplified and reduced so the job don't have anything that can be take as difficult to use, TBN status right now just limit the skill to TB and only TB that's all.

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GnB rotation is not hard though lol and is only more complex because u get a few more buttons to press. Overall as a class Gunbreaker is pretty easy, might be the easiest right now actually. Doesn't get punished by anything and the rotation is fast and linear

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Originally Posted by ExLegen

rotations being less easy isnt the same as hard.

And about TBN, im not saying its complex per say. im saying its complex when compared to other tanks Kit. Outside of tank busters, its either a gamble or you have very deep knowledge of the fights.

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Ok now i believe we need to define the word hard, what's harder? GNB is more complex and more harder to play that DRK but that's don't make my argument to GNB is the super hard god level skill level needed, that's are 2 different things.

TBN is not a hard skill or a complex one, it's just a skill that can only being used against TB or a big crow of adds bcs his design limit the effective uses, there is no choice at all, or you use it on those places or you eat the dps lose that's all.

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Originally Posted by Vinsmoke66

GnB rotation is not hard though lol and is only more complex because u get a few more buttons to press. Overall as a class Gunbreaker is pretty easy, might be the easiest right now actually. Doesn't get punished by anything and the rotation is fast and linear

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Complexity is equal to more stuff to keep in mind so it's more harder to keep, but again that's depend of what you are comparing GNB, I'm comparing the job with DRK witch is currently with WAR the most easy jobs in the game by far not against BLM or MCH

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Originally Posted by shao32

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Gnashing Fang being on a 30s recast doesn't make the job more complex, it makes it less complex. Being on a 30s recast mean that it lines up with all raid buff windows. No Mercy then being on a 60s recast means that it and Gnashing Fang just line up, no adjustment or extra thought required, just use No Mercy with every other Gnashing Fang.
Seriously, Gnashing Fang is no harder nor more complex than Delirium. With Gnashing Fang you press 1 button multiple times (3x Continuation) with alternating abilities used between. With Delirium, you press 1 button multiple times (5x Bloodspiller) while weaving other abilities between.

As far as fitting in 1 combo rotation, a GCD DoT and every oGCD available, that is virtually no different to how other tanks try to line-up and fit as much as possible into their bursts. Also with No Mercy's 20s duration you have plenty of time to fit all of that in. At least on PLD you have to fit two DoT combos into FoF, one at the beginning and one at the end, which is discernibly more complex than No Mercy.

IMO, GNB is not this high-skill, complex tank job like some are making it out to be and really appears to be quite the opposite. What it really appears to be is a job intended to get more new players and DPS players to try out tanking. It's a heavy fan-service job with a good deal of pay-off for often less effort than the other tank jobs. The rotation is fairly straight-forward, feeling fast and powerful while remaining pretty simplistic and being similar enough to a lighter version of a DPS rotation that will feel immediately familiar to a player trying to make the switch.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Ok now i believe we need to define the word hard, what's harder? GNB is more complex and more harder to play that DRK but that's don't make my argument to GNB is the super hard god level skill level needed, that's are 2 different things.

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Both are very easy, they belong to the "easy" spectrum. Eating and watching TV is harder then just watching TV or eating, but both are very easy regardless. =p

But, imo, i think GNB is a bit easier, just because you dont need to pay any atention to your Mana. How many times i freaked out with my GBN when i saw my mana at 10k, just to remember it does nothing.

TBN can break in any scenario, even in auto attacks, thats where enter the "deep knowledge of fights" part. its a 15 secs CD, you want to use it more than in TBs. If you are using it for TBs and big crowds only, thats poor use of the skill ceiling. Not that it rewards you greatly, thats the issue with the skill, playing skillfull with it dont reward, just avoid penalties.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Gnashing Fang being on a 30s recast doesn't make the job more complex, it makes it less complex. Being on a 30s recast mean that it lines up with all raid buff windows. No Mercy then being on a 60s recast means that it and Gnashing Fang just line up, no adjustment or extra thought required, just use No Mercy with every other Gnashing Fang.

As far as fitting in 1 combo rotation, a GCD DoT and every oGCD available, that is virtually no different to how other tanks try to line-up and fit as much as possible into their bursts. Also with No Mercy's 20s duration you have plenty of time to fit all of that in. At least on PLD you have to fit two DoT combos into FoF, one at the beginning and one at the end, which is discernibly more complex than No Mercy.

IMO, GNB is not this high-skill, complex tank job like some are making it out to be and really appears to be quite the opposite. What it really appears to be is a job intended to get more new players and DPS players to try out tanking. It's a heavy fan-service job with a good deal of pay-off for often less effort than the other tank jobs. The rotation is fairly straight-forward, feeling fast and powerful while remaining pretty simplistic and being similar enough to a lighter version of a DPS rotation that will feel immediately familiar to a player trying to make the switch.

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Gnashing fang being more rigid means you need to use it exactly every 30s or you delay you next no mercy window with in result that can mean a complete desync of trick attacks windows excep you choose to don't use anything until next trick attack with is a dps lose you want it or not, GNB have more harder times to sync his combos ideally that DRK since DRK just throw all his edge on trick without any penalty for holding back stuff.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Gnashing fang being more rigid means you need to use it exactly every 30s or you delay you next no mercy window with in result that can mean a complete desync of trick attacks windows excep you choose to don't use anything until next trick attack with is a dps lose you want it or not, GNB have more harder times to sync his combos ideally that DRK since DRK just throw all his edge on trick without any penalty for holding back stuff.

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You mean like what happens if you don't keep Blood Weapon, Delirium, Inner Release, Infuriate and Requiscat synced up with raid buff windows since all of those are on rigid recasts that are longer than 30s, making them actually more punishing if you mess up their timing?

Additionally, Gnashing Fang isn't really time limited to the extent that the other tank's burst abilities are. The procs to move from one step to the other in Gnashing Fang are very generous as is the case with all combos, meaning if you screw up doing things fast enough or double-weave oGCDs too slowly you may have one ability fall outside a raid buff window. With other burst abilities if you mess that up, you could easily completely lose out on being able to use one of your attacks since the time-frame to fit in the 5th GCD is a fraction of a second.

So no, it is not more complex nor is it more punishing.