Collective Unconscious and Sacred Soil

AST got scammed. No idea why Sacred Soil is stronger. It has 50% uptime and can get its full value without us being rooted and unable to act. Classic Square. CU should be (if rooted) STRONGER than Sacred Soil or at least similar. If AST has to give up doing ANY HEALING and ANY DPS to get the full value out of a move, it should be really, really strong. Imagine sitting there for 10 seconds doing nothing for a weaker regen and similar shield, but SCH has weaved Sacred Soil oGCD and is now... I don't know... healing? DPS? Moving? doing anything. It's such a dumb decision.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

AST got scammed. No idea why Sacred Soil is stronger. It has 50% uptime and can get its full value without us being rooted and unable to act. Classic Square. CU should be (if rooted) STRONGER than Sacred Soil or at least similar. If AST has to give up doing ANY HEALING and ANY DPS to get the full value out of a move, it should be really, really strong. Imagine sitting there for 10 seconds doing nothing for a weaker regen and similar shield, but SCH has weaved Sacred Soil oGCD and is now... I don't know... healing? DPS? Moving? doing anything. It's such a dumb decision.

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Please don't ignore that Sacred Soil costs an aetherflow stack, and does not have a 50% uptime. For one thing its a 100 potency regen ticks for five times, making it a 500 potency cure over 15 seconds (unbuffable), so there is almost no reason you would ever use all three stacks per minute on it when at least one should be used for Excogitation with its 800 potency targeted tank heal. Furthermore you have to weigh the idea of 500 potency over 15 seconds with everyone staying in the bubble (see; melee positioning for flank/backstabs) versus an immediate ogcd 400 indomitability that doesn't need to be floor targetted.

The reason they gave Sacred Soil an additional effect is because as a straight mitigation bubble no one really ever bothered to use it outside of cutting-edge progression moments, because its value for an aether stack was extremely low. You threw out Soil in Ultimate and Savage when an AoE was tuned to kill you otherwise, but now with other classes packing their own mitigation bubble like PLD and the other two healers, its value over either Energy Drain or even a Lustrate was just negligible.

Did I want a regen on it to make it feel like the other other healers? No, no I would have wanted something more original. Do I think it's pretty strong now as it is? Yes, its value has gone up a fair amount and it doesn't feel as wasteful to use. I would have preferred it not been a homogenized regen-bubble, but given its stack cost I understand that they didn't want it to be weak.

Do I think CU is weak? I've always felt it was weak, simply because you have to stand there and channel it. A move that locks you out of action is garbage, and I still stand by the assertion that it will always be garbage as long as that aspect remains true. But don't oversell Sacred Soil, because the grass isn't as green as you seem to think it is on that side of the fence.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Please don't ignore that Sacred Soil costs an aetherflow stack, and does not have a 50% uptime. For one thing its a 100 potency regen ticks for five times, making it a 500 potency cure over 15 seconds (unbuffable), so there is almost no reason you would ever use all three stacks per minute on it when at least one should be used for Excogitation with its 800 potency targeted tank heal. Furthermore you have to weigh the idea of 500 potency over 15 seconds with everyone staying in the bubble (see; melee positioning for flank/backstabs) versus an immediate ogcd 400 indomitability that doesn't need to be floor targetted.

The reason they gave Sacred Soil an additional effect is because as a straight mitigation bubble no one really ever bothered to use it outside of cutting-edge progression moments, because its value for an aether stack was extremely low. You threw out Soil in Ultimate and Savage when an AoE was tuned to kill you otherwise, but now with other classes packing their own mitigation bubble like PLD and the other two healers, its value over either Energy Drain or even a Lustrate was just negligible.
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Here is the thing though it can have a 50% uptime
sacred soil stats
-costs 1 aetherflow
-cd 30 secs
-15s duration
-its ogcd
-sch can freely move after use
-100 potency ground hot for 15s
-10% dmg mitigation
-can be deployed 30y away
-has a radius of 8y

so every min you can have sacred soil up for 30s for 2 aetherflow stacks leaving 1 for anything like excog,indom,lustrate, is this efficient? maybe depends on situation but it is something sch has access to and with no energy drain or bane they lose no dps using it thus its cost is very minor.

Ast CU on the other hand
-forces ast to remain stationary
-applies regen if enter bubble and stays on if leave
-10% dmg mitigation only in bubble
-50 potency regen that lasts from 15s to max 33s(this never ever happens ever)
-has 90s cd
-6y radius around ast

You can start to see why CU vs SS is glaring with which is better, CU is just impractical outside downtime or you will die moments where SS does not really have this issue. The time it takes ast to get the bubble up and regen on everyone, sch could do it and be healing/dpsing much more with little consequence and that is a glaring problem. SS should be inferior to CU.

Many options for them to buff it.

- Reduce the CD to 60s.
- Keep the CD as is but buff the HoT to 80 or 100 potency.
- Make the mitigation stay on people like the HoT once they enter the bubble.

But the current one can't stand as it is. It took a double nerf in the teeth. It was indeed incredibily strong back in SB, with its potency alone but also because we because we could expend the duration.We no longer can do that, so 50 potency to me feels too much for a nerf.

Take out the aetherflow requirement on SS, and i'll be fine with it being weaker then CU.

On second thought, I'm fine with CU being stronger than SS....

Just please stop using terrible reasoning to justify nerfing SS. Buff CU instead.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

On second thought, I'm fine with CU being stronger than SS....

Just please stop using terrible reasoning to justify nerfing SS. Buff CU instead.

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I'm not saying SS should be nerfed, i'm just saying it should be weaker than CU(I would prefer CU brought up than the alternative) because of the rooting in place, shorter range, tied to ast rather than a placement and longer cd (currently)

I cant help but wonder if the reason they nerfed CU is because they put that potency onto CO. Maybe they wanted us to chain the two to emulate extending it? Not saying it's a good idea but it's a thought that's been amusing me the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Lagomorph

CU was very overpowered in stormblood, but I'll agree that the nerf was way too heavy handed and sacred soil is really strong right now. CU definitely needs a buff, I think putting it back up to 100 potency would fine. Sacred soil is as strong as it is because the it isn't "free" like asylum or CU. The opportunity cost of using a sacred soil is not being able to use that aetherflow stack on indom/excog/lustrate. That being said though, it's up for debate whether sacred soil is too strong right now. I haven't quite decided the answer to that myself yet, but I would not be surprised nor would I be upset if sacred soil got a small potency nerf on the regen. I will say this though, the 10% damage reduction alone on sacred soil prior to shadowbringers was an extremely underwhelming way to spend an aetherflow stack; before enhanced sacred soil, it was almost always a waste to use unless it actually prevented people from dying.

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Please be honest with yourself about SS's cost. There are countless threads complaining about the excessive aetherflows after losing ED. The opportunity cost of SS is almost neglectable. Compared to SS, CU has a 3 times CD( 30s vs 90s), half potency (500 vs 250), and more importantly rooted condition (means AST has to chanel it the whole time!) All this makes me feel if CU does not have a much stronger potency than SS, it is just ridiculous!

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Originally Posted by IanFrench

Please be honest with yourself about SS's cost. There are countless threads complaining about the excessive aetherflows after losing ED. The opportunity cost of SS is almost neglectable. Compared to SS, CU has a 3 times CD( 30s vs 90s), half potency (500 vs 250), and more importantly rooted condition (means AST has to chanel it the whole time!) All this makes me feel if CU does not have a much stronger potency than SS, it is just ridiculous!

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People haven't just been complaining about having excessive aetherflow. I've seen many SCH posts refer to the problem as feast/famine issues.