PLD no flash?

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Originally Posted by Samsta

I kinda liked the blind in flash, it was like a little damage reduction cd for big pulls.

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I think you were the only one, its practically useless.

the only time ive ever found flash useful

was in HW when it helped warrior not drain TP or break combos for aggro
that's it

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think you were the only one, its practically useless.

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Agreed, but I still stress that having an aggro skill that deals no damage is beneficial for a number of mechanics currently in the game.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think you were the only one, its practically useless.

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I disagree, I liked it as well and would prefer it over what we have now.

PLD was the only tank with a no-damage aggro skill tho, weren't they? Seemed a bit odd-man-out. And while an argument could be made that all tanks could have such a skill, I think I'd counter-argue that the situations where those would be necessary (as you listed) are a bit niche. And, frankly, just because now you have to do damage to aggro doesn't mean any of those situations can't still be met. Because they always have been, with other tanks, lacking the no-damage skill. These aggro skills aren't insta-kill.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I hate to break the news to you, but this sounds exactly like Shield Oath but without the damage reduction. Lest you wonder, Shield Oath increased enmity also.

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Except for the part in the wording of the tank stances where it says "significantly increases enmity generation"
That makes it sound like the enmity bonus is going to be larger than from the old tank stances.
Plus, you're not going to ONLY spam Total Eclipse any more - you have the 2-part AoE combo now, which has a higher total potency and thus higher enmity generation.

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Another thing that people haven't considered is when you simply DO NOT WANT to damage a particular mob. I can think of several examples throughout the game.

1. Boss mechanics where killing certain enemies is detrimental (eg. Bombs versus the slime in Copperbell Mines)
2. Boss fights where certain enemies need to die in a certain order.
3. Boss fights where certain enemies need to die in a certain place.

If we're always going to have to damage mobs to keep aggro, it only increases the risk of failing one or more of these mechanics. Yes, we have Provoke, but the recast time in addition to its single target nature make it significantly less useful in these situations.

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That's about as fringe as it gets. If you end up wiping because of the PLD's AoE damage, your group's got problems to work out that have nothing to do with job design.
Not to mention that DRK and WAR had no way to grab AoE threat without doing damage in SB (outside of Ultimatum with its ludicrously long CD) and I don't recall that causing issues.

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Originally Posted by Big-Isaac

Except for the part in the wording of the tank stances where it says "significantly increases enmity generation"
That makes it sound like the enmity bonus is going to be larger than from the old tank stances.
Plus, you're not going to ONLY spam Total Eclipse any more - you have the 2-part AoE combo now, which has a higher total potency and thus higher enmity generation.


That's about as fringe as it gets. If you end up wiping because of the PLD's AoE damage, your group's got problems to work out that have nothing to do with job design.
Not to mention that DRK and WAR had no way to grab AoE threat without doing damage in SB (outside of Ultimatum with its ludicrously long CD) and I don't recall that causing issues.

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From what people have played and what we've been told, enmity is a non-issue if you have the tank stance on.

Why should all tanks be the same? Why should all tanks have gap closer, or the same aoe, or the same cooldowns?
Every class should be different and have their own pros and cons. Giving the same things to everyone is lazy and bad designed.

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Originally Posted by Ivellior

Why should all tanks be the same? Why should all tanks have gap closer, or the same aoe, or the same cooldowns?
Every class should be different and have their own pros and cons. Giving the same things to everyone is lazy and bad designed.

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We can have diversity when we stop having Savage and Ultimate content.

As long as there exists content where people can go over it with a fine-toothed comb to pick apart every flaw and underperformance, diversity is only going to make trouble.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

We can have diversity when we stop having Savage and Ultimate content.

As long as there exists content where people can go over it with a fine-toothed comb to pick apart every flaw and underperformance, diversity is only going to make trouble.

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This is an ever revolving problem around MMOs, but the fact is that people who do what you say are a very, very little minority and we should not cater to them too much. As long as every content can be cleared with any comp it's fine, some guy only accepting the best comp because it deals 1% more damage should not be the reason for too much streamlining.