Is it really that shameful to run order of join Lootmaster pf's for dogs?

I've been in these lootmaster parties before and while I don't think it's automatically a scam (as that implies an intention to mislead and some leaders are willing to stick it out for the rest of the group), I do avoid them now. It simply takes too long to drop eight mounts and there is no way that everyone will stick around long enough to get one. I've never seen more than the first three people in a LM party get their mount before people- not even necessarily those who got the drop -had to start leaving. It's one of those things that sound good on paper but completely falls apart in reality.

To the OP you can either stop running LM parties or block/report people for harassment.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

I've been in these lootmaster parties before and while I don't think it's automatically a scam (as that implies an intention to mislead and some leaders are willing to stick it out for the rest of the group), I do avoid them now. It simply takes too long to drop eight mounts and there is no way that everyone will stick around long enough to get one. I've never seen more than the first three people in a LM party get their mount before people- not even necessarily those who got the drop -had to start leaving. It's one of those things that sound good on paper but completely falls apart in reality.

To the OP you can either stop running LM parties or block/report people for harassment.

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I completely agree with you, i'm not trying to say that LM parties are the best or something stupid like that, i'm simply stating that people shouldn't harass others for running them (people shouldn't harass others PERIOD thats why GM's ban players for harassment in the first place), and at least you can understand that my point here is that it's not automatically a scam, because that would depend on the intentions of the person running the pf. If anything here is reportable/bannable i believe it is the people harassing others in game for their choices on loot rules. Setting aside intentions if it were truly wrong simply to set up a LM pf then the setting would not be in the game. Simple logic and common sense really.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I don't think you know what scam means. Look up the definition. A scam implies that you are lying about something and then doing something else. People should read the pf description before joining. It's their own obligation to know what they are getting into before joining. As long as the person leading the pf is not saying its not a LM party when it is or lying about the order, there is nothing (technically by definition) that implies it is a scam. You could consider a greedy thing to do, however if you want to be factually correct, you cannot call it what it isn't. If LM was a scam it wouldn't be a setting people could check.

Scam - a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

To put it shortly PEOPLE can scam, but a party finder setting itself is not a scam. You make it sound as if the system itself is flawed "Lootmaster party finder is a scam. " which it isn't. Loot master settings are in most mmo's and they are there for reasons.

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No, I'd say the system itself IS the scam, regardless of any good intentions.
Unless all 8 people involved, or at the very least the party leader, are committed to running it until all 8 party members have a dog, then whoever isn't the first, seconds, or third to join will have no chance, because RNG is so low that on average it could take 100 runs to drop that many dogs.
Most of these fall apart after about 10-20 runs with maybe one dog or none.
You can have the best intentions, but you cannot dictate what the other 7 party members will do. Someone will always be last, and in this case 'last' could encompass up to the last SIX party members, who will effectively just be carrying you and maybe your second or thirds.
You might not be a scammer, but the system itself IS a scam.

The best outcome you can hope for, is that people who join aren't actually interested in the dog, and just want weapons or totems for the weapons, or maybe the TT card.
Kinda like "Duty completion to clear for a friend" where everyone joining knows that they're only there to carry one person through the content.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I feel like this is just the opinion of the type of people who have no optimism, and to prove this wrong i have run farms before where the full party has actually stuck around to get the mount.

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One mount? or 8 mounts? that changes the context entirely.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

It is everyone else's own obligation to know the chances of things before they join. Just like its your own obligation to know the chances of a mount even dropping.

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People know gambling is bad and yet we have measures to prevent people from advertising gambling to children, for example.

The current drop rate of Seiryu is abysmally low at the moment and a lot people wont see a drop in 50-99 runs. If your party is 7/8 filled and an 8th person /tell's you and asks "hey, if a join, are you really going to stay until all of us get a mount?" what are you going to respond with?

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

If your party is 7/8 filled and an 8th person /tell's you and asks "hey, if a join, are you really going to stay until all of us get a mount?" what are you going to respond with?

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I would tell them that i cannot speak for others, but i can however speak for myself and that i would stay for everyone. So long as that was my intention i would have been nothing but honest and up front, and that is my point that it cannot be a scam if intentions are honest.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

People know gambling is bad and yet we have measures to prevent people from advertising gambling to children,

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I'd also like to state the definition of gambling and follow up on this too.

Gambling: 1. play games of chance for money; bet.
2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

I agree that gambling is wrong, however where do you actually draw the line, most people would probably say the bad part of gambling lies in the money loss. Loot rates in ffxiv have nothing to do with real money, betting, or being risky. Would you not agree? All you are investing is time. There is no "loss" of money or anything other than time. There is only staying even "not winning loot roll" or gaining something "winning loot" The part of gambling you are speaking of is more on the side of money spending for things like loot boxes or microtransactions. So i find it hard to believe that you think stating the whole gambling argument for this is just a bit stretched. At that point you might as well say almost everything is a gamble.

Lootmaster is only used by underperformers trying to loot and scoot with a rare item. The only way it is acceptable is when you are running with a full group of friends that agreed to it or a static with a loot rotation/distribution order per role. Anything else is people screaming for other to hand em over a mount.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I would tell them that i cannot speak for others, but i can however speak for myself and that i would stay for everyone. So long as that was my intention i would have been nothing but honest and up front, and that is my point that it cannot be a scam if intentions are honest.

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that's simply shifting the blame on others and washing away responsibility, imo. it would be convenient if the majority of the party left for their own reasons and you simply didn't have the time to wait to remake the party.

i'm not saying you're wrong or evil here, but im not agreeing that this system is being honest and upfront with everyone that joins. YOU can be honest, but you dont have control over people that join.

And on the point of harassment, people can't yell at a PF window, but they can yell at the person using it, so they do that instead.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I agree that gambling is wrong, however where do you actually draw the line.

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you're either trolling or missing the point entirely. editing posts is fun.

By definition it is not a scam, but statistically it is not favorable since as you said you have only have control over your own actions. While you have every intent to run it enough times to get everyone a mount, that cannot be said for the other members. Now should they harass you personally? No, and should they publicly shame the idea of lootmaster parties? Personally, I do not think so but this is the internet people will point out what they view is unfair. If people are interested in your PF they will join dispute the public outcry.

I doubt you are going to stay for 20 hours, 5 kills per hour, to get everyone the totems needed. It doesn't count as having good intentions to wait for someone else to leave and to then excuse yourself.

Maybe I'm wrong and you do have 20 hours of uninterrupted play time. Then why not use the normal loot rule? Everyone still gets a mount, but in a random order.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I doubt you are going to stay for 20 hours, 5 kills per hour, to get everyone the totems needed. It doesn't count as having good intentions to wait for someone else to leave and to then excuse yourself.

Maybe I'm wrong and you do have 20 hours of uninterrupted play time. Then why not use the normal loot rule? Everyone still gets a mount, but in a random order.

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The only reason i even resorted to trying a LM pf was because ive already invested soo much time into this in the first place, I have seen somewhere between 15-20 mounts drop so far and i have lost every single roll whether it being that time when you get nothing but a cluster of low rolls for a while or you finally get a high roll only to see someone roll even higher. I am a very patient person, but it gets to the mind numbing point where its like why am i even here. Why would anyone be optimistic in regards to winning a roll when they have already had nothing but astronomically consistent bad luck on rolling. It's just being human to be dissuaded in such a way i believe. Of course i guess anyone who hasn't been in this situation would have a different view and experience on the matter so perhaps that plays a role in some peoples opinions.