Will the Garleans be ostracized once the war with Garlemald ends in 5.0?

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

The Populares faction do oppose the royal family's way of running things over there in Garlemald so at least I'd assume they managed to convince a number of people to their cause

Especially with damning evidences about how the conquest made the primal problem worse( thanks to ascian manipulation) rather than getting rid of it

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So long as they haven't been wiped out. Elidibus and Solus certainly are trying to do that and given that Elidibus told Varis that the Populares "no longer present an obstacle" they are, at worst, down to Shadowhunter's/Alphinaud's group OR in Maxima's group that will be back in Eorzea next patch. Doubtful they are all thats left but that is our worst-case scenario for that group right now.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

So long as they haven't been wiped out. Elidibus and Solus certainly are trying to do that and given that Elidibus told Varis that the Populares "no longer present an obstacle" they are, at worst, down to Shadowhunter's/Alphinaud's group OR in Maxima's group that will be back in Eorzea next patch. Doubtful they are all thats left but that is our worst-case scenario for that group right now.

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I won't be surprised if we had to team up with Gaius/Shadowhunter in 5.0 or at some point at the end of 4.5 since we're gonna need them if our hunt for Ascians to make any progress.

While they might not be a threat anymore at the moment,I'm sure at least a few of the populares will try to approach us and whats left of the scions at this point to save what they can of Garlemald from the clutches of Elidibus and Solus especially if they discovered ascian involvement within the royal family

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

That got me thinking since the only exceptions of Garleans being welcomed in Eorzea and Hingashi/Othard were Cid and to an extent Nero.

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You forgot Lucia - she was originally a Garlean spy sent to report back to Garlemald on the Holy See, except she fell in love with Aymeric and ended up defecting to Ishgard properly (and by extension, Eorzea as a whole) after she confessed everything to him and he invited her to join the Temple Knights (and thus she swore fealty to him). Apparently Biggs, Wedge, Jessie and the rest of the Ironworks are also ex-Garlean citizens.... but as they are all members of the other races (and lack third eyes) it's clear they're not native born Garleans but just members of subject nations that were given Imperial educations and positions... and fled with Cid when he escaped to Eorzea on the Enterprise.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

A focus on efficiently being colonialist and imperialist.

https://i.imgur.com/o6XzLiQ.jpg

The issue is that as shown by the regular Garleans, there is this assumption in-universe that the conquests of Garlemald are "rightful", irrelevant of whether they are Ascian-inspired. Whether this will be completely swept aside by the writing team is uncertain, since we can't really simulate socio-historical movements to a finicky degree in a game (nor should we). But it exists, so we can't really say that as the evidence stands now Garleans as a whole will accept that their imperial ambitions were wrong.

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Ishgardians believed in throwing people off of cliffs with absolute conviction of their moral rightness and if they turned out innocent thought nothing of it.

I think Theodoric's pretty much on the money here, if so many Ishgardians can drop a millennia of religious zealotry, propaganda, and fervor so quickly I don't see why much of the Garlean population wouldn't do so similarly. The track record of this game, there will likely be a faction violently opposed to dropping imperialist expansionism but they'll be ousted.

1 thing i think is confirmed is the garlean empire wont survive after this and i mean in the way as an empire weather that means they become a republic or something else is yet to be seen and thats a good thing and while its true that ascian propoganda is the reason that they have done bad stuff i wouldnt say every bad thing they have done is because of ascians there is no doubt there are inherently bad garleans.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

You forgot Lucia - she was originally a Garlean spy sent to report back to Garlemald on the Holy See, except she fell in love with Aymeric and ended up defecting to Ishgard properly (and by extension, Eorzea as a whole) after she confessed everything to him and he invited her to join the Temple Knights (and thus she swore fealty to him). Apparently Biggs, Wedge, Jessie and the rest of the Ironworks are also ex-Garlean citizens.... but as they are all members of the other races (and lack third eyes) it's clear they're not native born Garleans but just members of subject nations that were given Imperial educations and positions... and fled with Cid when he escaped to Eorzea on the Enterprise.

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Oops....my bad xD

I dunno how I forgot Lucia of all people cuz I really liked her

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Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

1 thing i think is confirmed is the garlean empire wont survive after this and i mean in the way as an empire weather that means they become a republic or something else is yet to be seen and thats a good thing and while its true that ascian propoganda is the reason that they have done bad stuff i wouldnt say every bad thing they have done is because of ascians there is no doubt there are inherently bad garleans.

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Well Solus's campaign against the other nations and the primals started much before the empire made contact with the ascians so yeah there are inheritly bad garleans much like the other races.It's just that the ascian influence made things even worse

For how Garlean refugees would be treated by Eorzeans, really you need look no farther than the Ala Mhigan refugees. Like Garlemand, Ala Mhigo was a belligerent nation at one point that (unsuccessfully) invaded the Black Shroud. Today, there are Ala Mhigan refugees in both the Shroud and Thanalan, and while they're not treated the greatest, their poor treatment has nothing to do with the fact that they are Ala Mhigan. In the Shroud, they get short shrift because the Elementals say so, in spite of the fact that many Shroud natives would like to grant them succor. In Thanalan, Ala Mhigans are treated poorly as they are perceived to be a drain on the nation's resources.

Honestly, though, however things go down in Ilsabard, I don't think the Garlean nation is going to be destroyed or conquered, so there probably won't be a lot of refugees for anyone to ostracize. The real question is how Garleans who've settled in occupied territories will be treated. In the Ivalice storyline, the reason Ivalice was made an example of is that radical elements there were SLAUGHTERING Garlean citizens who'd made their homes there. If Garlemand loosens its grip on its conquered nations, there's a danger of that happening in those territories, as well - but this may be lessened if Garlemand actually relinquishes those territories, and returns their sovereignty. How the Garlean citizens would be treated then, probably varies case-by-case.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Once the lies of the Ascians are exposed, a number of Garleans are likely to change their tune - they're a pragmatic people with a focus on efficiency. Varis does not want senseless bloodshed. Gaius did not desire that either. Regula was the same and forged an alliance with the Warrior of Light; sacrificing himself in the process of defending a former foe. The worst of Garlemald we have seen thus far can be directly attributed to Ascian meddling, including those compromised by the consequences of said meddling.

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One thing I'm concerned about is exactly what bloodshed Varis and Gaius consider to be senseless. Both were totally on-board with the idea of stymieing Primal activity by slaughtering the Beastmen and subjugating humans who worship gods (and, hey, all the other humans, as well, just in case). While they may no longer be so keen on the plan, now that it is known that Ascians were behind it, the fact remains that these are people who consider conquest and genocide to be reasonable solutions to apply to problems, even before they knew they were being manipulated.

No, they are not reasonable solutions, and it is ludicrously dangerous to have individuals who believe they ARE reasonable in positions of power. Honestly, it would be for the best for Varis to step down as leader, and dismantle the entire government as it currently exists, if it engenders this kind of mindset. And that's taking the optimistic view that it's the hierarchical and regimented governmental structure that's to blame for the mindset, and not indicative of Garlean culture in general.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

Well Solus's campaign against the other nations and the primals started much before the empire made contact with the ascians so yeah there are inheritly bad garleans much like the other races.It's just that the ascian influence made things even worse

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Huh?

Wasn't it in the last cutscene said by Solus:
"If aught threathens the balance 'twixt Light and Dark, it falls to you to remove it. [...] That's why the empire exists. That's why I built it. [...] The founding father was an Ascian. And he created the empire solely for the purpose of sowing the seeds of chaos."

Should just kill them off wholesale. Nothing good can come of anything involved with Ascians. And they're blatantly incompetent whenever they're shown anyway. Probably would've just collapsed in on themselves even if they conquered the world and somehow didn't kickstart a Rejoining.