A self-improvement tool is needed in this game, especially for end game

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

The latest reasoning given by the Devs is they don't want to split the community and if they made it personal only, players would request screens or some other proof before allowing entry. Your wish to have it required for PF backs up their first reason, and while many players already vet through similar means, having an official parser would increase the number that do it.

Those are the official reasons. If we're being real, they probably also don't want to add one because they don't have the manpower to deal with the numerous reports of dps harassment that would result and they would prefer not to ban any more players than necessary. They are a business after all.

The Devs are well aware that parsing is one of the top requested QoL changes. Making yet another topic asking for one won't do anything.

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Frankly, I believe a vetting system would do far more good than harm. If people could more readily set expectations, it helps mitigate potential hostility. Think about it. If a PF is set up where the creator lists they want no less than 6,500 from all four DPS. Why join that party knowing you will be parsed and you will draw justifiable ire unless you match the expectation? You could, instead, join a party where the expectations are lower, thus meeting like-minded people. One of the biggest issues with obscurity is you're pitting all types of skill levels in the same environment. The devs seem to think veteran players will simply carry those underperforming to victory. And some certainly will, but it invites far more hostility, especially in the West as perception of individual player is measured higher than the overall group performance.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The devs seem to think veteran players will simply carry those underperforming to victory. And some certainly will, but it invites far more hostility, especially in the West as perception of individual player is measured higher than the overall group performance.

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I agree. Unfortunately, I feel like the devs don't really understand how things work in the West. I would really love to see a grading system in the game. Something akin to DMC system where the better you play, the better your rank becomes. Alternatively a grade at the end of the fight. It's probably harder to implement than a simple dps meter, but since they seem to be so against the idea of an official parser, they should really make an effort to find another way to let players know how they're performing. Also, it assumes that the devs' idea of "good performance" is the same as the players', which is not necessarily true since they proved countless times that they don't relly get how their game works when it comes to optimal healing and party synergy. But they need to at least try, otherwise we will keep seeing threads about "toxic elitists with unreasonable expectations" and "filthy casuals that expect good players to carry them".

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

But they need to at least try, otherwise we will keep seeing threads about "toxic elitists with unreasonable expectations" and "filthy casuals that expect good players to carry them".

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I think the casual side of the playerbase needs to grow a thicker skin and learn to stop whining when somebody gives them general tips about their job. This coddle mentality is probably part of the reason why the devs are so insistent on simplifying things and trying to bridge the gap, when all it does is just irritate players. Players need to stop being so quick to call harassment when they are told in nicer words that their playstyle is harming the group as a whole. And SE needs to stop developing current level 70 content (like what we got prior to 4.4) that coddles braindead play.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

The latest reasoning given by the Devs is they don't want to split the community and if they made it personal only, players would request screens or some other proof before allowing entry. Your wish to have it required for PF backs up their first reason, and while many players already vet through similar means, having an official parser would increase the number that do it.

Those are the official reasons. If we're being real, they probably also don't want to add one because they don't have the manpower to deal with the numerous reports of dps harassment that would result and they would prefer not to ban any more players than necessary. They are a business after all.

The Devs are well aware that parsing is one of the top requested QoL changes. Making yet another topic asking for one won't do anything.

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The community is already split into people who care how to play their classes and can check what they are doing, people who care how they play but can't check and into people who don't care at all and call others elitists for caring.

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Originally Posted by Destati

The Stone, Sky, Sea/Etc. dummies have always felt a bit bare-bones to me; while I know there are some fanmade tools out there that help calculate your damage for those trials, I would appreciate it if such things were available in-game. The simple pass/fail nature of the dummies isn't particularly helpful to me, and I wish at the end it would give you a more detailed score, such as total/highest damage dealt, total/target damage, recommended/minimum damage, etc

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SSS is not really helpful when it comes to optimizing because you just smack on a dummy with more HP but without any mechanic and no further buffs that a group would give you.

I had to pug my way through deltascape savage and I manage to get it on farm by 4.1. I'm trying to do the same this tier and it's gotten much harder due the amount of "carried" players diluting the end-game pool. I've seen so many dps get greedy with dps in o9s and then they die when in my mind I'm thinking do the mechanic first then dps. A dead dps is always a useless dps. The amount of tunnel vision most players is insane. I mean people are still dying to simon says or even the konckback/draw-in for suzaku.

While I do agree that the current player-skill gap seems to be much wider than in previous tiers adding a tool for measuring one's self will still be used in comparison to another player regardless of its intent. As someone who know's his job in-and-out and can learn a fight extremely fast regardless of voip's, this definitely benefits me and I would like to see something like this in-game. However I can see how it can create a wall for people who want to enter this "better" player pool but to those people I say anything gained without adversity is not worth gaining in the first place. Learn to struggle like the rest of us and your rewards will be that much sweeter. I also hate carries and hate to be carried.

I wonder how many people selling ultimate and savage runs are waiting for something like this, hoping to launch in pf a new offer "have a hard time passing performance checkers and joining partys ? You can have an experienced player validating it for you, go to this discord for the price !" XD

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

I wonder how many people selling ultimate and savage runs are waiting for something like this, hoping to launch in pf a new offer "have a hard time passing performance checkers and joining partys ? You can have an experienced player validating it for you, go to this discord for the price !" XD

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And when said person joins a party with experienced players and makes an utter fool of themselves, they will be swiftly kicked, thus accomplishing nothing except essentially giving their money away.

This has to be the fifth where you make wild assumptions that have no basis in reality. Perhaps stop posting about things you have no idea of, hmm?

I can't see them ever doing an officially sanctioned in-game parser or other sort of "performance checker" or "grade" that's available in actual content and visible to the whole party. Regardless of how much people say they'd use it with total nobility, it'd undoubtedly lead to performance-based harassment and exclusion. We already have a situation where "no bonus" parties pop up on PF within a day of the content becoming available, and it gets harder and harder for new players to get clears as fewer and fewer people becoming willing to take a risk on an unproven player. If you give people the power to increase their own success chance by excluding others, that's absolutely what they will do.

I think that more should be done to give players feedback on their performance or encourage them to improve, but giving players the ability to stringently vet each other is just a can of worms I can't see Square ever opening. It's dehumanizing; it's treating other players as accessories in your own success instead of real people.

To try and improve player performance in general, there's a few things I think they could do. One would be to simply require the completion of the corresponding SSS/CoS dummy before the game will even allow you to queue for high-level duties. The dummies don't measure absolute performance in a raid setting, and don't deal with mechanics, but they are a reasonable test of someone's ability to perform their rotation to a "good enough" standard. Clearing the dummy shows you are at least willing to learn your rotation, and have the ability to execute it, which should be enough to verify that clearing the actual content is within that person's reach. Because it's the game itself putting up the barrier to entry, rather than the players, there's no risk of exclusionary harassment on the players' part, and the people who struggle to clear the dummies can reach out to the community for help on how to improve. If someone is unwilling to try and improve they never have to come into conflict with actual players, they simply can't access the content.

The other thing they can do is try harder to teach players how to improve by offering better in-game resources for learning. Hall of the Novice doesn't even scratch the surface, it virtually doesn't teach anything that you won't be forced to learn simply by playing normally. The game does a very poor job of informing players of how to play properly. There are things which seem obvious to an experienced player, like the difference between weaponskills, spells and abilities, and that you are intended to use abilities in between weaponskills/spells. Yet nowhere in the game (or in any official materials as far as I'm aware) is this told to the players. Similarly, you are never told that DoT/HoT effects tick every 3 seconds. Without that knowledge you have no way of calculating how much these effects are worth, which means you can't effectively plan a rotation. They simply expect you to realize on your own that DoTs are almost always worth it but should only be refreshed when they're about to fall off.

Or how about how there is NO in-game information on whether damage being dealt is physical or magical, or if it's piercing/blunt/slashing, even though there are many skills and attacks which only affect certain categories? Are people really expected to just realize that Elixir Field is blunt damage, or that Shield Swipe is slashing? Some tankbusters are obviously physical/magical in nature, but for others it could go either way. Take Mustard Bomb for instance. It's magical, but it could just as easily be physical, the only way to know is to either run 3rd party software or do tests to see if the damage is reduced by Dark Mind or a parry. On that note, the game also never actually tells you that magic damage can't be parried.

It's frankly ridiculous that information THIS important can only be discovered by consulting external resources. And that's just the really obvious stuff, it's not even getting into the matter of things like rotations or openers. If a player wants to improve their performance in this game, it is absolutely useless for them to look within the game itself, they have no choice but to reach out to the community. Not everyone is going to do that. It shouldn't have to be that way. There is absolutely no reason why basic, critical information on combat and how certain jobs are intended to be played, cannot be offered in-game. Even if it's only in the form of text dumps instead of proper tutorials, that's still better than absolutely nothing. That alone could do a lot for raising the average skill level of the playerbase.

A tool like this, in a perfect world, would be used for the right reasons. This is not a perfect world and I don't trust people to use something like this responsibly. SE clearly doesn't either, nor should they.

This might be a bit off topic but did they ever give a reason why you can't discuss parsing in PF?