What exactly IS a White Mage?

I understand that they want WHM to be the "pure healer", but either they make content where "pure healing", or "higher potential hps" actually means something, or they need to redefine the concept of "pure healer".

To me, the best and simplest thing would be to increase whm dps. By a lot. And they could do it by reworking the lilies system by turning it into a dps focused system: gain lilies by doing damage, use them to unleash powerful attacks. WHM dps should be high enough that it is equal to AST average rdps contribution, computed based on the probabilities of drawing good cards. This would still make AST the preferred healer for speedruns as parties would choose it hoping for lucky draws, but WHM would still be a valid choice. Unfortunately, AST has been a strictly superior choice since HW as far as rdps is concerned. And depending on specific enounters, a superior choice also as far as healing is concerned.

There really does seem to be a lot of misinformation going around about WHM that was true at one point, but not anymore.

First off, it seems like a lot of people actually still think WHM is the king of healer DPS.
This is not remotely true anymore. SCH has always did more DPS than WHM, and AST is now doing substantially more than them, not including raid buffs.
WHM has the weakest DPS performance of all the healers.

Second, they have the best MP management. Again, they did at one point. Now? It shouldn't be considered a strength. SCH and AST both had major changes that greatly effected their MP management. They both are just as good at managing MP as a WHM is. In SCHs case, it's probably better.

Lastly, that WHM is the strongest healer because Cure III exists. This is just not true. Maybe in ARR or in HW, but these days Cure III is nothing to praise in front of the power of Earthly Star and the buffed Indom. Cure III being more accessible really doesn't mean anything, because fights in this game just aren't designed to need such constant healing power, and it never will be. SE wants every healer to be able to heal all content in the game. That automatically means that, despite Cure III existing, a situation where Earthly Star or indom can't cover the healing will never happen, leaving Cure III rather redundant.


This leaves WHM in a really weird spot. It has Cure III as it's one and only stand out strength, while everything else it can do is just as good or worse than what other healers can already do.

Ghishlain mentioned that WHM is better in bad parties where mechanics are sometimes handled incorrectly, and this is true, but definitely shouldn't be accepted. WHM deserves to have the chance to shine in a raid setting outside of bad PFs. This tier they even lost the honor of being the go-to prog healer, the one spot they're supposed to shine in because of their overall healing kit being safer.
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To close this off and answer OPs question: WHM is supposed to be the strongest raw healer in the game in terms of healing and DPS power; a pure healer that gets things done through sheer power.
What it currently is though, is a healer that heals about as much as the other healers, DPS' less than them while also offering no raid utility or unique assets. There's definitely something wrong with all of this.

I do want to say that WHM isn't necessarily bad at all, still a solid job this time around. But it doesn't really do anything plainly better than the other healer options available right now, and that's not exactly a spot they want to be in. SE really needs to decide what they want WHM to excel at and just run with it before 5.0 and a potential new healer is out...

tanks are dps dps are dps healers are dps , where is the identity just MORE DPS

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

@Ghishlain I can see the pros to WHM, but while it can still function, it doesn't outweigh its cons.

Still, it's great that we can actually have a discussion like this on the forums. In regards to WHM however...the way you worded it makes me wonder if people will look at WHM's capabilities and simply turn to Di-AST instead since it has faster casts than WHM in all prospects. As for the OP I have above, generally it's not that I rage, but moreover I have more worry as to whether the devs will actually see their fallacy or not when it comes to healer balance.

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Di-AST lost it's haste buff in Diurnal sect with 4.0 so WHM and AST GCDs function at the same speed, assuming Spell Speed is the same. AST also doesn't have the ability to make its GCDs faster - Pressence of Mind is a haste buff for WHM so it gets faster. This is in contrast to AST that can only front load their spells with Lightspeed, the recast for AST remains the same.

Di-AST also only has two oGCDs heals in the game - Essential Dignity and Earthly Star. One could argue Lady of the Crowns but that's RNG locked and the less of that card you see, the better you're augmenting your party DPS (mostly). Earthly Star also required planned usage, and in a PuG scenario, that's difficult to work around as not everyone knows to stand in the shiny circle.

This is compared to WHMs Tetra, Divine Benison, and Benediction with a side dish of Assize, Asylum, and Plenary Indulgence. WHMs have a lot more 0MP and instant options compared to Di-AST.

Therefore, Di-AST will be going to use their GCD heals sooner than WHM will in a low skilled group. Also, WHM GCD heals augment their recast via Lilies, making their CDs used more frequently. Say what you will about Lilies, it does get this aspect done... right. *Coughs softly*

Even with the fact WHM is non-meta, WHM still sees a lot of play in the Alphascape. Just look at number of WHM logs there are recorded and compare that to other jobs that are non-meta such as DRK, MCH, and SAM. WHM still has more logs listed than AST where as DRK, MCH, and SAM participation falls well behind PLD, WAR, BRD, DRG, NIN. Take into account this is a site that basically screams "run Meta to compete" and WHM still has more total logs listed than AST.

What does this mean about WHM in general? I'm honestly not sure. On one hand, I'd love some oil for the squeaky WHM machine because we honestly need to be at the top of the personal DPS chain for healers. With that being said, WHM brings a lot of strengths to the table that just aren't suited to a high skilled raid environment but the only way S-E will quell the WHM rage is to essential make WHM as powerful as Di-AST was in 3.4. On the other hand, S-E developers may be happy with WHM as is because it's an entry level healer that still sees a lot of play in the current juncture so they may just ignore WHM's protests outside of (hopefully) fixing Lilies and DPS in 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

-And of course, everyone's favorite Cure III, the highest AoE GCD heal in the game. Given the fact every single fight "normal difficclty" fight in this raid tier has a stack mechanic, this can see a lot of play.

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SHould've heard the death knell of cure 3 when SE buffed Indom to 500 potency and gave AST a 720 oGCD aoe.

Yes, these have a cooldown. But in tandem, there is no mechanic they won't heal through easily. Indom's CD is so short it'll be back for anything else and AST, well, there's CU's* ridiculous potency and mitigation if there's something closer than 1 minute away.

*CU being a spell you neglect to mention in your later post listing off AST's oGCD heals..?

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

It’s also very powerful at healing (cure III) and is best suited for progression style raiding. (As its MP pool is much deeper than the other healers, so it can raise more as well as other things.)

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WHM is not a progression healer anymore. AST outperforms at even that.

I also take issue with the claim that WHM's MP pool is deeper. Smart use of AST's CDs can effect nearly unlimited MP, even with some raises thrown in. (And WHM can too, so... I'd call them about equal).

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Even with the fact WHM is non-meta, WHM still sees a lot of play in the Alphascape.

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Yeah, and this is probably why SE won't touch it. Not exactly fun to be constantly asked to switch, though, along with the constant implications that you're holding back the group by playing WHM. (And... I don't mean statics so it's not just a "get a new group" kind of deal).

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Therefore, Di-AST will be going to use their GCD heals sooner than WHM will in a low skilled group. Also, WHM GCD heals augment their recast via Lilies, making their CDs used more frequently. Say what you will about Lilies, it does get this aspect done... right. *Coughs softly*

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There's... Quite a lot I disagree with on your post but this especially. Just, no. GCD heals are the very last heals you want to use. And of those, Regen should be the first, which generates no lillies.

SCH and AST get their CD reduction via oGCDs, and I hope I don't need to give a detailed explanation on why that is far better?

I agree that the lily mechanic needs an overhaul. But I don't play WHM so I can't really speak to much else. But just reading over what lillies do for them, it sounds very weak for being the core theme the class is supposed to play around.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

SHould've heard the death knell of cure 3 when SE buffed Indom to 500 potency and gave AST a 720 oGCD aoe.

Yes, these have a cooldown. But in tandem, there is no mechanic they won't heal through easily. Indom's CD is so short it'll be back for anything else and AST, well, there's CU's* ridiculous potency and mitigation if there's something closer than 1 minute away.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

There's... Quite a lot I disagree with on your post but this especially. Just, no. GCD heals are the very last heals you want to use. And of those, Regen should be the first, which generates no lillies.

SCH and AST get their CD reduction via oGCDs, and I hope I don't need to give a detailed explanation on why that is far better?

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It's clear you missed the context of my post.

For absolute optimal play, WHM is going to be the least useful of the three because heals are calculated and controlled with little room for both error and deviation. This is exactly what you're talking about.

However, WHM's strength comes in unorganized and non-optimized play, where the HPS spike potential allow WHM to keep someone alive where AST or SCH may fall behind.

For example:
-Cure III to top people off for Akh Morn in O10 so they can survive the Ahk Morn, then Cure III again to allow people to survive the subsequent explosions.
-Benediction to save DPS who might've missed Lar/Starboard twice in a row
-Tetra + Bene targets that mess up Spin/Flip mechanics and are targeted with Earthshaker / Thunderstorms in O10
-Double 0MP raises when people die to meteors in O12 (That's 7,200MP)

No healer in the game can put a raid back together like WHM can. That's their strength.

And it's useless in optimal play.

Trust me, you don't have to talk to me about WHM's weaknesses. O9S already irritates me on WHM and 10s of doing nothing during Pantokrator 2 in O11S does make me question if I should switch. I wish I had triplecast like BLM did (proposal - allow Lilies to give instant cast in some fashion, please!!!!!)

Again, this isn't to say WHM doesn't need help, but the kit's strength definitely draws into assisting the lower skilled players clear the content tier.

Is it the wrong place to be? I don't think so, but I know people will disagree and that I wish there was more of a bone given to WHM too.

Highest personal DPS potential and a rework of the Lilies would make me a very happy WHM.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

*CU being a spell you neglect to mention in your later post listing off AST's oGCD heals..?

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Yes, I missed CU. It still doesn't change the fact WHMs oGCD kit still surpasses the AST oGCD kit and thus AST will be digging into their GCDs heals faster and more frequently when that PuG group you going into is falling apart.

WHM is the beginner friendly healer that offers padding for unorganized play. The healer that can help the less skilled players through the content. It's a crucial stone of the ff14 monument and casual attitude. It will always be that way and until current WHM realize that it's not meant to be a scalable class these threads will continue popping up. The skill cap is low -by design- #realitycheck

So what's the beginner-friendly DPS/tank?

Everything else is allowed to be useful at a higher level and got reworked to attempt it, but we just discard WHM?

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

So what's the beginner-friendly DPS/tank?

Everything else is allowed to be useful at a higher level and got reworked to attempt it, but we just discard WHM?

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I'd say MNK (or maybe RDM) and PLD respectively to answer the first bit =p

WHM is useful at high level, it's just overshadowed by the power level of SCH and AST. Either WHM be brought up to AST or SCH's standards or AST and SCH gets knocked down a peg.

WHM can do a lot at high level, it's just that both the skill floor and ceiling of WHM is lower than AST and SCH and that wherein lies the issue.

Of course this thread in particular is about where WHM's role is in the grand hierarchy of healers. There are definitely a lot of threads dedicated to making WHM greater then it is right now which I am for and in agreement with.