I am getting tired of the BLM "Buffs"

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

"Wow a Blm that does damage" is a common phrase I'll see when trapping. It's not just the job, but the performance of those playing the job and those they run into, it seems.

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Yes, this!

For some reason, when I do switch over to play BLM in Duty Finder or raids, I get the comments... "Geeze! A BLM that can do solid damage!"

It boggles the mind sometimes and as you just said, I'm beginning to think there are some who can't really perform on the job and then run into a few groups who automatically just assume BLM can't deliver.

As far as buffs go, they are always welcome; however, one additional element we still need in order to compensate for our mobility is that one powerful spell we can cast on the move besides Scathe.

I mean as far as mobility goes you have:

Scathe
Aetherial Manipulation
Firestarter
Thundercloud
Sharpcast (Can give you a proc that you can set up for when you need to move)
Between the Lines
Triple Cast (this covers a lot of time)
Swiftcast
Surecast
In some cases; Manaward

Every job has to deal with mechanics and move around. BLM should not be an exception. Savage fights challenge all jobs to perform outside of normal and ideal situations. If there was no challenge to overcome, it would be boring.

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

I mean as far as mobility goes you have:

Scathe
Aetherial Manipulation
Firestarter
Thundercloud
Sharpcast (Can give you a proc that you can set up for when you need to move)
Between the Lines
Triple Cast (this covers a lot of time)
Swiftcast
Surecast
In some cases; Manaward

Every job has to deal with mechanics and move around. BLM should not be an exception. Savage fights challenge all jobs to perform outside of normal and ideal situations. If there was no challenge to overcome, it would be boring.

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there's a bit of a difference. as far as ranged goes, brd/mch/smn/rdm don't have to deal with the mobility issues quite as harshly. brd/mch can just free move, smn only loses 20 potency and nothing rotation wise to free move indefinitely, and rdm typically has low enough cast times to more easily slide most mechanics. To be a higher end blm is by far more difficult than any other ranged dps.

The biggest reason prog groups bring smn/rdm isn't so much for the raise itself but the mp capacity it brings and the extra swiftcast effects. Every ressurrection/verraise cast is a 3600 mp infusion to a healer and usually instant.

In my eyes BLM suffers from lack of easily accessible support skills. Rdm and smn can weave in their manashifts at anytime with no dps loss, but BLM has to clip to use its small astral/ umbral phase changes to minimize dps loss, even with triple/swift and use the server tick.

If I could change BLM I would align it with the other casters as being the high dps, defensive support, trading raise/a heal for an mp recovery mechanic. It would have to have a similar cost as verraise in terms of dps, but be slightly better since BLM can't actually cast the raise themselves, just help pay for the cost and they need better opportunities to use it.

I'd also like something that's slightly "new" to the game in terms of mechanics. Something similar to the effect of the original ewer but at a much better scale.

Confluence- Can only be used under the effect of umbral ice. Restore target party members MP by 10%. If under the effect of umbral heart, remove an umbral heart. If an umbral heart was consumed the target also gains the effect: Your next 3 Spells cost 50% less to cast and the cast time is reduced by 50% . Duration 10 seconds. Cool down of 120 seconds. [I guess this is actually just a mix between rapid fire and light speed with some raw mp on top, useable only on other pt members]

I'd reduce the cast time of blizzard III/Fire III transitions to 1 second to allow cleaner triple cast/swifts to allow better weave openings for Confluence, Apocastasis, mana shift and erase.

I don't know lol. I'm bored at work and I feel this would help balance out recovery potential. Defensive utility should be the same across the role. Offensive utility should be balanced out between dps and buffs, with rdm <smn<BLM after dps and raid damage.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

there's a bit of a difference. as far as ranged goes, brd/mch/smn/rdm don't have to deal with the mobility issues quite as harshly. brd/mch can just free move, smn only loses 20 potency and nothing rotation wise to free move indefinitely, and rdm typically has low enough cast times to more easily slide most mechanics. To be a higher end blm is by far more difficult than any other ranged dps.

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Exactly, Zerathor...and +1.

Bard and Machinist have the core ability to move freely while still delivering damage and RDM has low casting times for several of their spells in order to swiftly dodge mechanics. High end BLMs on the other hand are constantly playing a difficult adaptability game due to the longer cast times of the rotations... and that's where the Devs really need to tweak.

A skilled BLM will do way more damage than a BRD/MCH given the nature of their kit. Sure those two jobs can run and gun and keep their uptime going, but BLM is going to out dps them. Again BLM has those listed tools, 9 different uses for mobility that can allow them to maintain their uptime. Just because your uptime isn't 100% like BRD/MCH, that doesn't mean that the job is flawed and broken. It just means you need to learn how to utilize all of your skills and abilities to maintain that uptime. Nearly every job is going to have some sort of uptime drop throughout an encounter and everyone deals with mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

A skilled BLM will do way more damage than a BRD/MCH given the nature of their kit. Sure those two jobs can run and gun and keep their uptime going, but BLM is going to out dps them. Again BLM has those listed tools, 9 different uses for mobility that can allow them to maintain their uptime. Just because your uptime isn't 100% like BRD/MCH, that doesn't mean that the job is flawed and broken. It just means you need to learn how to utilize all of your skills and abilities to maintain that uptime. Nearly every job is going to have some sort of uptime drop throughout an encounter and everyone deals with mechanics.

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Yeah, in most instances blm mobility is fine. Some fights however borderline require the party to adapt to you so you don't loose a horrendous ammount of dps, which is a little annoying. Scathe is not an option, that's throwing away like 430 potency per gcd

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Yeah, in most instances blm mobility is fine. Some fights however borderline require the party to adapt to you so you don't loose a horrendous ammount of dps, which is a little annoying. Scathe is not an option, that's throwing away like 430 potency per gcd

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This. I constantly see people say "but Scathe...". If you have to cast Scathe, it's because you've exhausted all your other resources and are desperate, and have no choice but to toss 400+ potency in the dirt. One of the more irritating things with some of the new mechanics is that it seems like AoEs are extending slightly beyond their markers lately, meaning I can't slidecast to the edge and be fine. I have to take that one extra step and maybe clip or lose a cast.

To the topic of the thread, I have done prog on Black Mage and been fine, but it is indeed harder to find groups.

Scathe is worthless, and I will always try and greed a Fire 1 before I bother putting Scathe back on my bars.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

Yes, this!

For some reason, when I do switch over to play BLM in Duty Finder or raids, I get the comments... "Geeze! A BLM that can do solid damage!"

It boggles the mind sometimes and as you just said, I'm beginning to think there are some who can't really perform on the job and then run into a few groups who automatically just assume BLM can't deliver.

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The general problem with how BLM is designed is that it's fantastic on a striking dummy, but throw in the chaos and required movement of a real fight* and it's all too easy to tank your DPS through small mistakes and slight mis-timings (which other jobs don't tend to suffer as much from; e.g. SAM can mis-time things all day and still do good DPS).

And sure, this can be overcome (at least mostly*) though practice and muscle memory, but that doesn't help when you're trying to learn BLM in the first place, especially since the BLM rotation, and thus the timing of everything, drastically changes at key levels... i.e. you can't even really start to learn BLM until it’s level 70. Edit: Or that you basically have to re-learn the timing of your 'movement abilities' for every fight.

* Adding to BLMs issues, it seems like the fight designers have put a lot more emphasis on movement in SB, with certain fights (especially in the 24-mans) having periods of constant and sustained movement, which BLM just isn't designed for (Triple Cast only covers about 8 seconds), and for a 'pure DPS' jobs it just feels s**t basically having to sit on your hands and chain cast Transpose / Scathe while you wait for the boss to stop p**sing about so you can be useful again. /rant

As for what to do about it... well (and assuming they are going to continue to push movement in fights) they could start by trimming all the useless chaff (e.g. Freeze, Sleep) and 'punishment' mechanics (current Enochian :facepalm: ), and giving BLM:
1. Generally shorter cast times
2. More abilities that allow BLM to maintain up-time (and thus high DPS) while moving... Triple Cast is a good start, but how about:
- Enochian = can cast while moving for a short time
- Freeze Time = stops all buffs from counting down / ticking until after your next action (or 30 seconds)
- Outside the Lines = moves your Lay Lines to you
- Duplicate Magic (replaces Scathe after taking another action) = repeats your previous action with no cast time, reverts to Scathe, short cooldown before becoming Duplicate Magic again

TLDR: BLM needs some design changes, as its reliance on minimal movement is no longer compatible with the design of many encounters, and as a 'pure DPS' job this leaves it starkly behind, and simply not fun for inexperienced players.