More content like Rathalos EX, please

If you're going to do it, make sure it can't be cheesed by 4x tanks, and make sure it isn't story mode required. I think you're going to have fun finding people willing to heal it after the newness wears off, and there will be several "don't bother queueing as this job moments" depending on the mechanics, but as long as those two conditions are met, go nuts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

If you're going to do it, make sure it can't be cheesed by 4x tanks

---

But I was told that DPS players didn't like poorly designed toxic mechanics like hard enrages. So many DPS mains on this forum were requesting less DPS intensive fights, more mechanically intensive fights. This was what they spent all that time asking for, isn't it? I guess we'd better put those back in so that we can avoid the "4x tank cheese" that people seem to despise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

make sure it isn't story mode required..

---

Rath isn't story required, nor has any EX trial ever been. Loathe as people are to actually admit it: Nidhogg, Shinryu, and Tsukoyomi are all pretty easy once people actually stop dying to predictable, repeated AoE attacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I think you're going to have fun finding people willing to heal it after the newness wears off, and there will be several "don't bother queueing as this job moments" depending on the mechanics

---

And here I am just excited to finally have a trial that seems singularly designed to take in 8 tanks, for the SB mount farm parties. You best believe I'm gonna be hosting a few of those in 4.4 when tanks are laughably overgeared and can just shrug off everything with barriers and clemencies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SargentToughie

But I was told that DPS players didn't like poorly designed toxic mechanics like hard enrages.

---

No, they don't. But I don't think SE planned tanks to be DPS but three times as sturdy, either, to the point where 4/8 tank clears are becoming a joke. It's not difficulty in that sense, except to dps and healers. It should also be a test of tanking too, with real risk if they screw up, not "blue dps that tosses out self heals once in a while."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SargentToughie

Rath isn't story required, nor has any EX trial ever been.

---

No, but a lot of people have clamored for expert dungeons to be more like this.

I'd like difficult 4-man content, but I feel like XIV's engine falls well short of what I'd want for Rathalos and likely any other fight that would be "like Rathalos".

Until such time as damage is dealt during animations, rather than just before the animation starts, etc., it just feels very, very strange, almost like trying to play an FPS at 300+ ms ping; with shooter-favored mechanics it's still viable (so long as you're the camper, and not the one peeking), but it just feels so bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

No, they don't. But I don't think SE planned tanks to be DPS but three times as sturdy, either, to the point where 4/8 tank clears are becoming a joke. It's not difficulty in that sense, except to dps and healers. It should also be a test of tanking too, with real risk if they screw up, not "blue dps that tosses out self heals once in a while.".

---

I doubt they intended Zurvan or A12S to be cleared by eight tanks yet it's been done. Likewise, Ridorana has been cleared by 21 SMNs, RDMs, BLMs and 24 tanks and healers. This is simply players coming up with different ways to clear the content. Shocking, I know, but people like to experiment in that sort of way. As for not liking enrage. Welcome to the only mechanic which keeps DPS relevant. So either you accept them as a necessary component or tanks are simply better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

No, but a lot of people have clamored for expert dungeons to be more like this.

---

God forbid the game asks you to turn your brain on. The horror!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

God forbid the game asks you to turn your brain on. The horror!

---

It's hard to talk to you when you assume something like rath ex just requires you to turn your brain on. The fact that people might actually struggle to the point of vote abandon in some of the games activities always seems to get glossed over, because to a vocal subset of this population, everything is just so easy that it has to be harder. It also has to be forced on people so that they get good.

It shouldn't be required in expert to avoid the times when you need to clear expert/70 dungeons for story mode. I am willing to let expert be harder overall, but on the flip side that just means people will seek tomes elsewhere if it becomes too hard with too many vote abandons. No one should be forced to bang their head against the wall because some people think content should be harder and all people should be forced to improve their skills to a standard above what casual play requires. It's best content like this is optional, not required; if you have every played an MMO when you were forced to do something distasteful to progress, it can be some of the least fun activities ever. Ask any ninja who had to rep grind for utsusemi in FFXI.

Oooh, this is four-man content???

Now THIS makes me want to log in and give it a try, because I know I can find three other friends to do this with me. This game desperately needs either more four-man content, or more content that can be done with variably sized groups of people. The biggest roadblock to playing this game is needing to always play with the same seven other people in order to get anything done with any real efficiency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's hard to talk to you when you assume something like rath ex just requires you to turn your brain on. The fact that people might actually struggle to the point of vote abandon in some of the games activities always seems to get glossed over, because to a vocal subset of this population, everything is just so easy that it has to be harder. It also has to be forced on people so that they get good.

---

These people tend to be the same ones who try to Vote Abandon after a single wipe in a 24-man. Hello, Weeping City. Hello, Dun Scaith. Heaven forbid things don’t just roll over when you target them. Maybe if content did get progressively harder as you level, people would stop asking for things to be so brain-dead simple, or just handed to them.

Quote:

---

It shouldn't be required in expert to avoid the times when you need to clear expert/70 dungeons for story mode. I am willing to let expert be harder overall, but on the flip side that just means people will seek tomes elsewhere if it becomes too hard with too many vote abandons. No one should be forced to bang their head against the wall because some people think content should be harder and all people should be forced to improve their skills to a standard above what casual play requires. It's best content like this is optional, not required; if you have every played an MMO when you were forced to do something distasteful to progress, it can be some of the least fun activities ever. Ask any ninja who had to rep grind for utsusemi in FFXI.

---

This game asks literally nothing of its playerbase for 99% of the content — doesn’t even ask for you to have a semblance of a decent rotation at level cap. The least it can do is start demanding something of players from content that is done at current endgame/level cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's hard to talk to you when you assume something like rath ex just requires you to turn your brain on. The fact that people might actually struggle to the point of vote abandon in some of the games activities always seems to get glossed over, because to a vocal subset of this population, everything is just so easy that it has to be harder. It also has to be forced on people so that they get good.

It shouldn't be required in expert to avoid the times when you need to clear expert/70 dungeons for story mode. I am willing to let expert be harder overall, but on the flip side that just means people will seek tomes elsewhere if it becomes too hard with too many vote abandons. No one should be forced to bang their head against the wall because some people think content should be harder and all people should be forced to improve their skills to a standard above what casual play requires. It's best content like this is optional, not required; if you have every played an MMO when you were forced to do something distasteful to progress, it can be some of the least fun activities ever. Ask any ninja who had to rep grind for utsusemi in FFXI.

---

As per usual, you jump to absurd extreme scenarios. How many times do I have to mention The Vault? Was that Vote Abandoned? Rarely. And yet it was a dungeon that actually required some thought. Even if a few vote abandons did happen. So what? Getting the equivalent of a game over every once in a while isn't the end of the world. It's certainly better than content being so easy, you literally can't fail. Turning on your brain is simply shorthand for saying you have actual mechanic to pay attention to. Meanwhile, Swallow's Compass is so laughably simple, I pull everything in Deliverance and have healed large pulls with just Regen and Assize. And my healers aren't Savage geared nor was the tank in that particular instance.

People wouldn't get their tomes elsewhere if content scaled, thus they have to do the harder Experts unless they want to do Leveling Roulette once a day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I doubt they intended Zurvan or A12S to be cleared by eight tanks yet it's been done. Likewise, Ridorana has been cleared by 21 SMNs, RDMs, BLMs and 24 tanks and healers. This is simply players coming up with different ways to clear the content. Shocking, I know, but people like to experiment in that sort of way.

---

The problem is Rathalos EX is way easier going in as a tank than any other role. The only part of the fight that's remotely hard is when you get hit by Rathalos' ridiculously high damaging attacks, which can be pretty common given how everything is run server side in this game. Being on my BIS DRG I was either one shot or nearly one shot by attacks, while on my decently geared PLD I could survive far more easily and would only die from really bad RNG if I was hit then stunned into a second hit in the final phase. The fight is far more forgiving if you stack tanks than if you bring DPS/healers.

By contrast every non-standard composition you mentioned hardly, if even ever, makes the content easier. It's pretty much done as a challenge.

As for them adding more content like this to the game? Sure, but I would instantly quit and I imagine many others would do the same. This sort of fight just doesn't work for this type of game let alone with their engine.