Is there a home in FXIV for the "Hardcore Endgame" Player-Type?

Also, I suggest looking for some videos of the endgame raids (Savage, Ultimate, etc) to see if they look like they're to your taste (if you don't mind spoilers.) I say this because I know that difficulty is subjective and I do hear complaints from some folks that the "memorize the steps" method of FFXIV battles isn't to their taste. (I love it, but that's me.) While I'd obviously hope you'll stay/enjoy it, if you won't it would suck to put money on a levelling potion or a longer sub if XIV's endgame isn't what you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Echo_Magnus

That's more or less what I'm curious about...

Leveling is Leveling. Traditionally this isn't my preferred style (linear-arcade), but I'm perfectly willing to endure if the leveling process isn't a reflection of what the endgame looks like.

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I recommend looking up raids and EX Primals. This will give you a better picture of what the end game looks like, especially once you settle into a potential static to complete said content. Actually, lemme grab some vids.

Neo Exdeath
Ravana EX

Bear in mind, these are old fights and have long become out-geared. I didn't want to grab anything too recent in case you wanted to avoid spoilers, but the game updates near raids every seven months and new Primals every three or so.

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Originally Posted by RubixCube

I’m going to quietly step in and suggest that you don’t skip past HW. It has the best storyline of the three games and, in my opinion, the best characters. Certainly you’ll get to end game faster but I don’t think it’s worth missing. There’s some pretty tough dungeons in HW too, along with one of the hardest normal mode primals. The content is good.

That being said... skipping past ARR is an option if you’re suffering (and like Tex, I did that for my second play-through so I could enjoy HW), but it is expensive. Something like 25 dollars.

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Hey-hey, Ruchan!

While I disagree and say SB is the best ;D haha, it's usually one or the other that is a person's favourite xD , I agree in that HW shouldn't be skipped. It has a great storyline and isn't anywhere near as gruelling as ARR by any means. The worst it was for me back when it first released three years ago was the moogle side quests to level up those little furry bastards give you a run for your money. However, newer players usually don't have the "moogle quest issue" because they're already way levelled up.

I also wouldn't suggest skipping ARR as awful as it (and honestly, at level 47 you might as well just finish it) is because it does give you a basic understanding of major issues in the story, as well as teach you mechanics you'll need to know all throughout the game (same goes for HWin terms of mechs). However, just get through the story for now and prioritise getting to HW & SB. You can unlock ARR's raids and exprimals and level 50 dungeons afterward or whenever you need a break from MSQ grinding. I also suggest that you - regardless of your level - do ARR/HW ex primals/bahamut/etc. synced first if you want challenge even if your friends/fc mates pressure you to just do them unsync. If you do them unsync first, you'll feel very unsatisfied.

Mechs will get harder for normal content in each expansion which may be of relief to you, and they will definitely help prepare you for level 70 endgame content. Personally, I find SB's dungeons and trials and raids to be the most fun so far. When you get to the current end game as well, that's when you can try raids and trials etc. when they're brand new to everyone, which is a fun and frustrating experience. xD


P.S. You unlock your first three(?) 24-man raids and 8-man raid in ARR "patches."

I mean, he already said he's grown weary of the story, such as it is. Improvements aside, quests are quests. Quite honestly, I'm not entirely sure what else OP expects from quests. You talk, you go do a thing, you talk some more. That's about as stripped down as any game gets.

Instead, you want to just repeat the same fights over and over?

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Originally Posted by Echo_Magnus

So, is there a home here for the Hardcore Endgame player-type? Or does this game mostly cater to the Casual Player?

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End-game will begin at level 70, and there are several things to do that range from more softcore/casual to midcore to hardcore.

Softcore end-game content:
—Dailies/weeklies (roulettes—mostly I mean Level 70 and Expert Roulette)
—24-man Alliance raids
—8-man Normal Mode/Story mode raids

Midcore end-game content:
—Extreme primal trials
—8-man Savage content

Hardcore end-game content:
—8-man Ultimate Savage

I put 8-man Savage content in Midcore as it has gotten progressively easier over the years, and it caters to more midcore players, where as Ultimate Savage is the new hardcore content for the top 1%. Regular Savage could fit in either, I suppose, but I consider it, in its current iteration, more leaning towards Midcore/semi-Hardcore.

That being said, the majority of FFXIV’s playerbase would consider themselves softcore. Savage is only done by a fraction of the playerbase (probably roughly ~10% clear the final floor of a tier; Deltascape Savage had an unofficial clear rate of ~7% at the time of the last unofficial census), and Ultimate is done by even less (mostly because it is purposely designed for that 1% of the playerbase, and it also requires a lot of time and dedication to the content—the last unofficial census had a less than 1% clear rate for the Unending Coil of Bahamut, an 18-minute gauntlet-style fight full of machine-gun mechanics that require a high amount of precision to execute).

It’s like that all the way to lvl 70. Get ready to click and fetch a lot.

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Originally Posted by Echo_Magnus

So, is there a home here for the Hardcore Endgame player-type? Or does this game mostly cater to the Casual Player?

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Both. At any given time, for hardcore end-game raiders, you'll generally have a Savage raid tier (four boss fights, generally), and an Ultimate fight. You'll also have EX Primals. That said, it's worth keeping in mind the pace of XIV's updates: a new Savage raid tier arrives every six months. A new Ultimate fight arrives every six months on an alternating schedule with the Savage raids. New EX Primals tend to arrive every three months. The gear drops from Savage and EX Primals will be largely invalidated within six months of the content's release (the stuff will still be decent, but casual players will be able to acquire similar-quality gear by grinding much easier content).

As an example, the best weapons available in the game right now are i375 (Omega: Sigmascape and Ultima Weapon Ultimate). The highest iLevel armours are i370. Currently, right now - with no patch on the horizon for close to three months at least - it's easy to acquire i370 armours for even casual players (grind Mendacity and join a Hunt LS / run Ridorana once per week). That's near-fully equivalent stuff, mod the generally-bland sub-stats available on gear. There's a bit of a drop-off on the weapon - i360 is the current max for easy, non-EX, non-Savage, non-Ultimate content - but you can bet that will change with the release of 4.4, and the EX Primal is on track to offer a weapon equivalent to what Ultima Weapon Ultimate drops right now.

Long story short, any 1337 gear you come upon won't be looking so awesome in six months, at the most. It'll be at the upper end of the pack, still, but well within range of large swaths of the player base. As a result, end-game raiding can definitely feel like a somewhat-futile rat race, unless you're in it mostly for the challenge.

Edit: An additional observation to help put things in perspective: up until about two weeks ago, Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate) was the current Ultimate fight tier. The prize it drops is an i345 weapon, which is now struggling to be in the top-10 available weapons. It is thoroughly trounced by a weapon (i360) that any decent crafter can make with a few hours of effort and some easily-acquired Creation Tomestones. Again: this is a weapon that was best in slot six months ago, now getting pushed out the door even by someone like me, who tends to avoid dungeons like the plague.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Edit: An additional observation to help put things in perspective: up until about two weeks ago, Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate) was the current Ultimate fight tier. The prize it drops is an i345 weapon, which is now struggling to be in the top-10 available weapons. It is thoroughly trounced by a weapon (i360) that any decent crafter can make with a few hours of effort and some easily-acquired Creation Tomestones. Again: this is a weapon that was best in slot six months ago, now getting pushed out the door even by someone like me, who tends to avoid dungeons like the plague.

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It’s important to note that Ultimate weapons, while being technically better by 1 materia slot, are not meant to be actual BiS. Actual BiS weapons are generally considered to be the ones from Savage. The Ultimate weapons are basically bragging rights—weapon damage, main stats, and sub stats are all the same between the current tier Savage weapons and Ultimate ones.

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Originally Posted by Echo_Magnus

That's more or less what I'm curious about...

Leveling is Leveling. Traditionally this isn't my preferred style (linear-arcade), but I'm perfectly willing to endure if the leveling process isn't a reflection of what the endgame looks like.

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It depends what you define as endgame.

GLAMOUR IS END GAME! meme is kinda real, to be frank. But there is quite a lot of things to do once you hit 70. If you dont give a crap about other classes, dont care about glamour or side events (gold saucer or the like), dont care about housing, then youre left with Savage, EX, and Ultimate Content. Depending how experienced you are, they can give you a challenge or be semi easy. Well Savage and EX will, UCoB and the new Ultimate will probably give you a bit of run fro your money, but your mileage may vary depending how experienced you are.

If youre expecting a super hardcore press one wrong button or mistime .001 seconds late and everyone dies horribly and you lose everything in your inventory, well youre going to be disappointed.If youre looking for some boss fights that are pretty cool and a decent challenge to do with friends and what not, then yeah, youre going to be satisfied.

But gonna tell you something: FFXIV is a story driven game more or less. Everything revolves around the MSQ or events related to the MSQ. If youre bored with story or MSQ already, You probably wont be sticking around for to long anyways, even with Savage and EX content. Those things by themselves with nothing else will leave you with periods of time being bored and twiddling your thumbs. Not that the story sucks. ARR is a bit longwinded and meanders a bit IMO. HW is definitely top notch story wise I think and youll probably like it more than ARR. SB is aiite, not as strong as HW I feel but its better than ARR. I think the Devs know this too (feel like the MSQ actually gets better later in SB). Also, while I mentioned classes above, some of the class storylines are good. DRK is good stuff in 30-50 range, as an example. But yeah, story is a fairly big componant of FFXIV. Hopefully youll find something thats more your speed :>

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It’s important to note that Ultimate weapons, while being technically better by 1 materia slot, are not meant to be actual BiS. Actual BiS weapons are generally considered to be the ones from Savage. The Ultimate weapons are basically bragging rights—weapon damage, main stats, and sub stats are all the same between the current tier Savage weapons and Ultimate ones.

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Well... ultimate weapons are by definition "actual BiS". Unless you're using a definition of BiS other than "the best possible gear you can equip". I get your point though. No-one who does ultimate is doing it because they want an extra materia slot.