Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

It didn't restrict movement nearly as much as Eureka does. Diadem used to require grabbing aether currents, and then you could fly throughout the entire map. In Eureka, you have to level up, and do quests before you can mount up.

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Probably a matter of taste, but that very situation is part of what, IMO, Eureka did better than Diadem. By restricting movement and incorporating a leveling system, you really felt like you conquer Eureka bit by bit. The more you delve into Eureka, the more active you can be, from a solo wanderer to a full backup on the train, to a valuable DPS asset, to a train leader or train main tank. You also have to learn how each species react, wether they aggro you on sight, sound, low HP or magic if you want to navigate the zone at earlier levels..And it's godsend they didn't allow flying in Eureka, because the minute you fly, everything stops being a threat.

I didn't have that many opportunities to participate in Diadem trains, but I didn't see that much collaboration discussed when compared to Eureka. In Eureka, death bears a penalty, so, players are inclined to be helpful towards dead people, sometimes really far of the map, probably because they expect others to do the same for them.

For me, Eureka has only one major flaw (But it could gain a lot of various improvement), it's the lack of level sync that makes partying with friends very tricky. Also, most people board the FATE train even though the FATE Xp penalty you suffer when underleveled could make it a very inneficient way to gain Xp depending on your level. Almost every instance I was in, there were enough low levels to make at least two parties. The challenge bonuses might help to switch away from this paradigm a little in the future.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Yeah I know, I just didn't want to hi-jack another person's thread any longer :P I mentioned in his thread that the diadem had the horrible greed only thing like the alliance raids (which is now getting fixed) and it kinda spiraled out of control from there.

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Yes but back then we have already agreed on the points you've made and since nothing has really changed from back then, the thread is probably gonna devolve in back and forth about why it's wrong what you said and how they are wrong and what not

Restricting movement isn't necessarily bad. No flying and gaining mounts later actually made it daunting to traverse, and exp loss meant you had something to lose (Even though nowadays you get rezd with no penalty)

Eureka needs a rebalance, the braindead train needs to die.

I never went into Diadem, but I honestly enjoy Eureka. I like that you can't fly and that you can't mount at all until level 17. I like that there are mobs all over the place that can one-shot you. It feels dangerous.

As a LVl 70 in Eorezea, NOTHING is dangerous, most mobs die in a few hits and even Elite Hunt Marks are faceroll. Even when leveling, it was difficult to die unless you were in a zone way over your level.

I think what you get out of Eureka depends on what you want to put into it and that is a good thing in my opinion.

The things I would like to change are:

1) Add dailies with unique rewards tied to them, ala Beast Tribes.
2) Give gatherers and crafters something out of Eureka too.

Participated in all 3 (Diadems 1.0/2.0 and Eureka), and while they all had their flaws and strengths, I think Eureka is marginally superior to Diadem 1.0, while Diadem 2.0 fell flat.

Starting with Diadem; it's true, it quickly devolved into "everyone go to 'Dinosaur Island' and kill them until a star-ranked monster spawns." That did get a tad boring and monotonous, but the prospect of relevant gear dropping with varying stats did give a little spark of "excitement" (I'm using that term loosely). That and when the brachiosaur did spawn, it was always interesting (and frantic for healers) to take it down. Everything else in there (aside from mandatory gathering for new items) was, well, "less-than an afterthought." Monsters on most other islands became nothing more than an obstacle for gatherers and air current hunters. If you weren't a gatherer, your world was pretty much Dino island.

Diadem 2 tried ever so hard to "encourage" or "entice" players to go around the map more. By basically forcing groups (you did have to do these, right?) to do leve-level braindead tasks now and scattering their favorite most-hated activity (FATEs) all over the map in an attempt to give "objectives" to the zone. And they segregated the elevation into 2 parts (a no-fly zone) to make players have to "deal with" random mobs on the way to said FATEs. Outside of the incredibly fickle Emergency Mission (some people wouldn't see these spawn upon multiple Diadem trips), there was not much worth doing (or we haven't been doing since ARR), especially since there no longer was the appeal of relevant gear (now locked behind a trade-in system that I rarely obtained tokens for). And even the Emergency Mission was incredibly fickle by allowing as little as one random stranger to snowball the fight into an unsalvageable mess. And the reward for nobody messing up was a random weapon to 1 random player present. Obviously people weren't impressed.

Eureka did rectify a few of the problems of the Diadems but introduced it's own. Once again, Eureka proved to us that the devs have very little creativity outside of FATE-related content. Even if they didn't shove them down our throats like Diadem 2.0, the fact that FATEs most assuredly provide the biggest source to token collecting (crystals and lockboxes) and experience (assuming you aren't grossly underlevelled for the monster), almost made Eureka feel like they're saying: "we're not forcing you to do FATEs... But it's in your best interest to." There has been definitely more communication between players in this content, which I feel like it's lacking in most of their other max-level outlets. But I do agree that they dropped dyeable SB AF and the relic in here to get more activity than it probably deserved. People standing around waiting for FATE monsters also became a glaring flaw in this system. We shall see if they improve on anything in the upcoming Pagos section.

So in a sense, Eureka just benefited from having the most appealing and tangible carrot on a stick, but there was also arguably more meat on it.

To me, Eureka is, alongside the two diadems, one of the worst game design I ever saw in a MMO. There may be worse, but I have not experienced it. Still, Eureka might be better than Diadem, because the map is good and there is a sens of danger (at least until lvl 17/18). Plus the relic is here, so there's a reward, outdated yes, but a reward nonetheless.

But aside from that, it's just the dumbest thing :
- Another (!) FATEs train after people said that they didn't like FATEs on Diadem.
- The loot table is a joke. There's like 2 items all in all that you need for the relic; aside from the glamour that you get a chance to drop in the FATEs.
- The elemental wheel is not fun. I can get the though process behind that, but the execution is really clumsy, at best.
- The elemental level is poorly implemented. Because of it, people with lower EL have to wait/afk from the side so that people with the right EL can kill monsters to make the FATEs pop. Players with low EL who still try to participate will deal next to no damage to the mob and will get killed at worst. Eureka literally rewards you for being AFK!
- There's nothing to do outside of those brainless FATEs. Where is the content for crafter/gatherer? Where are the hunt? Or the leves even?
- The FATEs in itself are just a zergfest. People do some dps, die, get raised, and dps again. There is either too much people in one instance, or the fight are just designed to be that stupid.


Personally, I don't mind the grind. I don't mind losing XP when I die. I don't mind mind having no flying mount. But seriously, who designed this? A beginner in game design? To me, Eureka is a insult toward the player base. A message like "you are way too dumb for anything better, so enjoy rolling your face on the keyboard for some relics".

I tried my hand at it, from the very first day. I tried to like it even. But when I reached lvl 12, I just couldn't go on with this. It was just a long, boring and mindless grind for meaningless rewards and I simply refuse to set another foot in this. Pagos is coming for 4.36 but if there is no drastic change, I will totally skip the relic without regret for this expansion.


Of course, Eureka is better than the Diadem. But it's better in the sense that sleeping on the street is better than sleeping in the sewers ...

I really wonder why they didn't dismantled the Diadem team instead of putting them on an other project like Eureka. After the first two iterations of the Diadem, it was clear that they don't have good game designer in it...

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

- Another (!) FATEs train after people said that they didn't like FATEs on Diadem.

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There's actually no difference between NM, FATES and Hunts. It's basically group to kill a big monster. I really can't understand this FATE hate...do people really expect not having to kill monsters in an FF game ?

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

- The elemental level is poorly implemented. Because of it, people with lower EL have to wait/afk from the side so that people with the right EL can kill monsters to make the FATEs pop. Players with low EL who still try to participate will deal next to no damage to the mob and will get killed at worst. Eureka literally rewards you for being AFK!

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No, people play poorly. They'd rather stay AFK and gain pitiful experience points and no crystal from high level NM instead of actually targeting monsters of the appropriate level and gain much higher Xp/Protean crystal per hour.

I actually liked Diadem and how it worked with us queueing into a party (if otherwise solo). I don't remember if I did the original Diadem or the 2.0 (there were 2 or 3 groups at a time when I was there, and could only be there for a limited time... that's all I remember.) Getting aether currents together as a group, etc. But I only did it for the mount. Grinding for the mount made it abit tedious/boring after a while, though. Sometimes it'd get tough if half or more of the party went off to gather. The gear wasn't very good, but at least it could be traded in for other things (like the pegasus). In Eureka, I usually go in solo (don't know many people on my server and not interested in joining a PF) and it's just... a total drag. I usually don't have the patience to stay longer than killing a few mobs at a time. I'm only level 1 and I just...-shakes head- I can't... -shakes head- How many mobs do I have to kill to get that darn crystal?! XD Admittedly, I don't quite get/know what I'm doing in Eureka. I just know it's a drag.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

Eureka needs a rebalance, the braindead train needs to die.

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I prefer the braindead train to braindead mob grinding like it was pre-train. It's braindead content either way though.