Quit Ruining The General Discussions

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Well, if other people on the forums can just continue to circle their complaints about their dislike and hatred for SE lately around over and over again non-stop, why can't this person make a complaint thread that they're tired of hearing the same complaints in like....10 different topics over and over again? That's their right.

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Never said it wasn't. It's just freaking hilarious to post a complaint post telling people they shouldn't complain.

Vote KaivaC for Forum god!

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Originally Posted by Enla

To be fair, the General Discussion is where the most players congregate and SE has already admitted they look at thread size when it comes to responding to concerns from their playerbase. I don't think it's in any way wrong to have an issue and voice it civilly, particularly in one of the very few places where it actually might be heard. Different people have different tolerances for certain issues and as customers we all have a right to voice them. Just because one person has no issue with how things are implemented does not mean that their stance supersedes others, either. No one's opinions hold more 'weight' and that's a dangerous precedent to set.

With that said however, actively antagonizing others is not the way to go about it. I'm aware of who you are referring to and some of their posts and I do agree very much that debates should be kept civil.

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Which is fine and fair, but there really are no civil discussions going on about this. Some of the threads may start civil, but then they quickly descend into:

1) poster says something
2) another poster disagrees
3) poster says no you're wrong
4) other poster counter-argues about why their wrong
5) it expands from there repeating the same cycle
6) sometimes something else is either brought in or cherry picked
6) ultimately, nothing is gained because now everybody is arguing

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Or... Just continue to complain for no reason at all. Because that's how dissatisfied community members do things these days... Sit on a computer and complain and tweet about it to other players on hopes that they'll either join them, or they "prove" that they're forum trolls themselves.

Yeah, that will totally show the other players that we mean serious business, right?

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Oh...haha...except I'm not trolling. I'm not here trying to convince anybody of anything that I myself don't believe in, and I didn't post this for the simple matter of provoking specific responses. I know exactly what I said, and every word I typed, I meant. I publicly noted that there's a wave of negativity. If you take offense at the fact that I'm pointing it out or that I'm pointing at specific reasons where the negativity is festering...well, tough. It needed to be said.

Also, quit cherry picking what I'm saying. I don't mind people complaining...hell, I am complained plenty of times about things here on the forums. But those threads actually went somewhere. As heated as my discussions have gotten, there was productive discussions involved and they never devolved into the same complaints spread over multiple pages for the General Discussions. But you don't see me filling 5-6 threads saying the exact same thing over and over and over again, just with a different flavor.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Never said it wasn't. It's just freaking hilarious to post a complaint post telling people they shouldn't complain.

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They didn't really state that those people couldn't complain honestly, just that the constant bandwagoning effect is getting a little old which I think we can all agree on here. If you're unhappy with a company and/or its products, then leaving and letting the company directly know why you're leaving is the best course of action that you can take, instead of sitting there and making 100 forum posts over the course of a week voicing the same complaint over and over in various different ways acting as if the reps will actually bother to look through a Sea of Threads for your feedback.

Being a moderator on any kind of public forum is more or less a voluntary position that pays nothing and rewards you with nothing and quite possibly the most mindless and numbing thing to do. No moderator is going to want to shift through 10 different threads all voicing the same complaints being spoken in several different ways and tones...nor want to compile all of that information from 10 different threads and put it together into one cohesive feedback report to the director/developers.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Or... Just continue to complain for no reason at all. Because that's how dissatisfied customers do things these days... Sit on a computer and complain and tweet about it to other players on hopes that they'll either join them, or they "prove" that they're white knights themselves.

Yeah, that will totally show the devs that we mean serious business, right?

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I mean, not to poke too big a hole in your point or anything, but refusing to shut up, and rallying together as many individuals as possible who also won't shut up, is pretty much the recipe for effecting change. Our venue might be a forum rather than a megaphone, and we might post waves of threads instead of marching down a street, but the core approach being taken is quite familiar to anyone involved in activism of any kind.

Besides, as another long-running complaint thread has successfully pointed out, SE hasn't exactly left us many options. There aren't any real customer surveys; the Live Letter questions are predominantly cherry-picked softballs. Sure, we could just leave - and honestly, I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on that myself - but by the same token, you could just stop reading negative threads on the forums.

In short: please don't tell others how to behave or what to do. We've as much right to voice negative opinions as you do to voice positive ones. And you can count on me to say the exact same thing if I come across a thread requesting people stop creating positively-themed posts, too. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that, for all forum-goers, regardless of what opinions are held.

It's general discussion so, people can speak their opinion. It's fair. And, I'm fine with this. However...
According to increasing numbers of this kind of topic, it will be better if people make it in one thread. Some topics go down or to next page because of this.
General discussion is ours. Please make it nice :)

Off-Topic: I wanna know opinion of Japanese players. What do they think about this?

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

In short: please don't tell others how to behave or what to do. We've as much right to voice negative opinions as you do to voice positive ones. And you can count on me to say the exact same thing if I come across a thread requesting people stop creating positively-themed posts, too. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that, for all forum-goers, regardless of what opinions are held.

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Which is fine; people are of course allowed their own opinions. But there are certain posters on here that argue just for the sake of arguing in every single thread, as well as creating their own thread just to continue arguing. It gets to be little annoying when they start picking fights with every poster left and right, and does not make for reasonable discussion nor debate. The posters that act so antagonistic like that are actually more likely to make the developers completely ignore and/or dismiss their complaints because of their unreasonable and abrasive nature. They don’t provide constructive criticism, only negativity.

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Originally Posted by KoshikiMurasaki

It's general discussion so, people can speak their opinion. It's fair. And, I'm fine with this. However...
According to increasing numbers of this kind of topic, it will be better if people make it in one thread. Some topics go down or to next page because of this.
General discussion is ours. Please make it nice :)

Off-Topic: I wanna know opinion of Japanese players. What do they think about this?

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What the JP playerbase think about certain controversial topics, I cannot say. But their forums are all consolidated into singular megathreads. If someone posts a topic about something, anyone with the same concerns and/or opinions post in that same thread as opposed to making their own thread about the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

In short: please don't tell others how to behave or what to do. We've as much right to voice negative opinions as you do to voice positive ones. And you can count on me to say the exact same thing if I come across a thread requesting people stop creating positively-themed posts, too. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that, for all forum-goers, regardless of what opinions are held.

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I'm not trying to be offensive or pick a fight with you, but.....you're basically contradicting yourself and doing exactly what you're telling others not to do here.

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Originally Posted by Enla

To be fair, the General Discussion is where the most players congregate and SE has already admitted they look at thread size when it comes to responding to concerns from their playerbase. I don't think it's in any way wrong to have an issue and voice it civilly, particularly in one of the very few places where it actually might be heard. Different people have different tolerances for certain issues and as customers we all have a right to voice them. Just because one person has no issue with how things are implemented does not mean that their stance supersedes others, either. No one's opinions hold more 'weight' and that's a dangerous precedent to set.

With that said however, actively antagonizing others is not the way to go about it. I'm aware of who you are referring to and some of their posts and I do agree very much that debates should be kept civil.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

I mean, not to poke too big a hole in your point or anything, but refusing to shut up, and rallying together as many individuals as possible who also won't shut up, is pretty much the recipe for effecting change. Our venue might be a forum rather than a megaphone, and we might post waves of threads instead of marching down a street, but the core approach being taken is quite familiar to anyone involved in activism of any kind.

Besides, as another long-running complaint thread has successfully pointed out, SE hasn't exactly left us many options. There aren't any real customer surveys; the Live Letter questions are predominantly cherry-picked softballs. Sure, we could just leave - and honestly, I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on that myself - but by the same token, you could just stop reading negative threads on the forums.

In short: please don't tell others how to behave or what to do. We've as much right to voice negative opinions as you do to voice positive ones. And you can count on me to say the exact same thing if I come across a thread requesting people stop creating positively-themed posts, too. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that, for all forum-goers, regardless of what opinions are held.

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I can respect what you're saying, because you said it in a respectful manner. And I will respond in the same respectful manner. I don't think that the complaints are invalid. I may not agree with them, but I recognize that people have legitimate concerns. But the same issues are being brought up repeatedly and they are going nowhere. In my opinion, these complaints really are not going anywhere. True, you are restricted to 40 characters on the support website, but in that same token, what has been the most reasonable way to get the devs to take notice of something: gaming websites, huge unsub numbers, things of that nature. Keep in mind, my comments are not directed at those who have issues with the game and want to unsub. They are specifically for those who have been constantly complaining about the exact same things for the last week and a half.

Again, I have no problems with complaints. What I'm pointing at right now is the same ones constantly occurring over multiple threads that it feels like nothing positive can be talked about right now.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I'm not trying to be offensive or pick a fight with you, but.....you're basically contradicting yourself and doing exactly what you're telling others not to do here.

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Not really. She is just giving advice and it's in some way just comment sense. If you got some ass acting person in a dungeon, you also ignore it no or are you respone to it and causing more drama ? I ignore *Tales from Duty Finder* Topic for example, too many made up story's that they are the good guy and the others bad.

I understand that you guys want to discuss this. But will it have some effect ? I dont think so and it's kinda waste of time.

Many people stop playing for more then 1 reason, some drop it on the forum with a negatieve taste in there mounth. Maybe some too much and thats bec they like the game very much.

And too behonest. There is not many reason to play the game for alot of people and with the last live letter things doesnt seems to improve alot.